Just not as quick any more

[Motivation_Follows_Action]

hi guys, well I'm back from a mad scurry to the West Coast for work. I'm loving the new work, and using my brain again. It's intense.

I can't figure something out though. I'm just not as quick at doing things any more (and I'm comparing this to my pre-adderall days, of course). For example, I'm working on collating a whole bunch of consulting interview data and putting it in to a conceptual pitch. That probably would have taken me 2-3 hours before; but I started working on it on the flight on the way home and I wasn't even half way done by the time I landed in JFK nearly 6 hours later.

I'm still picking up on concepts pretty easily and my memory is returning (slowly), but it's the mental agility to churn stuff out that before adderall I could do with relative ease that I have slowed down on.

This observation is only mine, and not noticeable to anyone else, but I am worried because I'm starting to work longer hours to get through everything and I don't want to go down that rabbit hole...

Am I brain damaged? I know there is no real answer for this, I'm just curious to know what you guys think. And don't sugar coat it... I can take it!

[Greg]

Hey MFA, I don't think you should be comparing how you work now to how you worked on adderall. Working on adderall cost you a lot so even if you were faster at things it still wasn't worth it. But I can't honestly say that you are now going to be slower at things and that now have become brain damaged. I think you just need to get more used to working without an artificially sped up brain. I no longer can ''binge work' if you know what I'm describing which I know you do. Maybe you are misinterpreting that as Brain damage. Once you get more used to your non sped up brain, I'm sure you will get quicker at things. For me, personally. I still can get a lot done. But I do it with breaks and stuff..I get a lot of stuff done differently...I am not go go go..that's all. But I've still found a way to get it done. Just a matter of getting used to it. It's so much better this way.

[Motivation_Follows_Action]

Thanks IR; sorry if it was confusing. I am comparing how I work now with my pre-adderall days. My adderall binges are nothing but black holes in the span of my life's timeline so of course it's not what I am referring to here. Hope that makes sense!

[Greg]

Hey, you got whatever you were supposed to get done right? I wouldn't read too much into it.

I have a fresh start outlook when I think of how I perform without adderall..I don't compare much to before adderall. when i do try to look back at my preadderall, well During my preadderall days I was in high school, lol. When I try to compare myself to myself in high school it is kind of funny. But I don't think I notice much of a difference cognitively. maybe someone else can chime in, but i wouldn't read too much into it in my opinion.

[quit-once]

Am I brain damaged? I know there is no real answer for this, I'm just curious to know what you guys think. And don't sugar coat it... I can take it!

What if you were officially diagnosed as brain damaged? Would it change even one thing about your current situation?

I believe my long term high intensity adderall use caused a decline in my memory, cognition, and motivation. It is the price I must pay for having fun with the drugs and using adderall well into a damaging addiction that I chose to persue. Some days are better than other days, even two years after quitting. But that is just life being life. What I got left is a useful brain, sound mind and good judgement. Not as good as it could have been without drinking, smoking, and drug use, but good enough for now. But there really is not a lot of room left for the natural mental decline that comes with an older brain.

Not what you wanted to hear MFA? I am not one who enjoys sugar coatings or even sugar as an ingredient, so this may sound somewhat cynical.

[lea]

MFA you are right where you need to be. I don't think you're brain damaged but hey, who am I to say -- I'm no brain surgeon. You seem happy for the most part, healthy, and doing great things with your life -- including right here. IMO the biggest winners are the ones with perseverance.

[Cassie]

I think I'm performing as well, if not better, mentally as I did pre-adderall, BUT...it's taken a year and a half to feel this way. You're not brain damaged, you're just expecting too much too soon, in my opinion.

[Motivation_Follows_Action]

Thanks - useful insights. The reasons for the mental slowdown could be varied, I agree. After reflecting on it, the only real question that counts is... "To what end"?

Aging, poor diet, lack of sleep, barely any exercise and lack of work/life balance may all play a large part in the equation. I am responsible for all those things not being quite in alignment. If, after getting all but the aging thing in order, I still feel the same, then maybe I can narrow down the causes a bit.

I know I'm a broken record, but I have never been good at balancing the demands of life. Maybe it is taking its toll finally.

[NaturalBrainPower]

MFA, I feel the same way. I am almost 60 days free of vyvanse and although the anxiety has decreased (still there though) I feel a couple of levels slower than my vyvanse days. I do admit I still miss the vyvanse 'pick me up' in the morning and the increased confidence I get from it. It might be the lack of exercise + poor diet that may be the culprit in terms of mental sharpness but even then you already know as so do I, nothing I mean NOTHING will replace the mental sharpness of amphetamines. So I think the only way we can combat this is exercise + diet + supplementation to help with mental fortitude

[BeHereNow]

Aging, poor diet, lack of sleep, barely any exercise and lack of work/life balance may all play a large part in the equation.

Hi MFA!

I think these are probably HUGE in the equation. Can't do much about aging (though I refuse to believe aging is a simple decline into senescence--I believe we make choices that affect future sharpeness), but lack of sleep has major effects on mental sharpness and agility. Exercise is excellent for your brain. Statistically, apparently, college students who exercise have better GPA's. Maybe that correlation has to do with other lifestyle factors, but in my experience exercise DOES help my cognitive abilities. It helps me focus, it's meditative, it's self discipline, and who knows, it probably helps the brain heal from any damage. And, food. I swear by my raw leafy greens and omega 3-s and the brain power I get from them. Junk food on the other hand can cause massive brain fog.

So, once you get these things in order, one at a time, a little at a time, etc. then maybe you'll have a better sense of whether you actually are slower than before. It might also still be recovery.

Also: Could it be partially because you've taken some time away from work that you've slowed down some? If so, that's just a matter of the patience to get those synapses firing, training yourself to do that kind of work again, and re-learning to do that work quickly. Maybe with more practice you'll see improvements in how fast you can collate data etc. Maybe make it a game and try to beat your best time?

Brain damage is a hard one to face (I was asking myself the exact same thing a couple weeks ago when I wrote that post asking "is full recovery possible?") But it's entirely possible that we might have caused ourselves permanent brain damage. That is just a fact we have to live with. But after having that little crisis, I'm pretty OK with it. Nobody gets through life whole anyways. Lots of things cause damage to brain, psyche, and body, and we can't go back in time, so might as well look forward towards maximizing the future. The brain is amazing and can regenerate itself, and I refuse to believe that with more time and training you won't be exceeding your pre-adderall self.

[Greg]

I really like this thread...the advice is really great..expecting too much too soon, and looking at OTHER factors and the advice of what others have said are some great insights..

I know you are referring to pre adderall days but You can also feel satisfied that memory/executive functions muscle Youre employing now is YOUR OWN memory/executive function and not a memory muscle assisted by high levels of dopamine in your head. you are retraining and strengthening yourself.

[quit-once]

Occaisonal and In Recovery, I agree with your posts 100%. I could have just clicked the "like" button but I just wanted to say it anyway.

Edit: I do think we overlook brain fitness, training and mental exercises. We are a culture that seeks relief from a pill be it a drug or a supplement. I do not know why I have resisted more intensive brain training like Luminosity. This inherited computer I am using is loaded with brain enhancing games and I never use them. It is how my mom retained her mental sharpness through her declining years. She played computer games until the day she died at 90.

[Motivation_Follows_Action]

Lumosity is just a fancy expensive app that works the brain the same way crossword puzzles and other mental puzzles do.

[Cassie]

Lumosity is just a fancy expensive app that works the brain the same way crossword puzzles and other mental puzzles do.

True, studies show that all luminosity games do is make you better at luminosity games. You're better off learning new things often and having novel experiences, in my opinion.

[Motivation_Follows_Action]

Just circling back to this; I know it's been a while since I was able to visit (I've missed you guys!).

Thanks for your inputs on all of the above. I am starting to work on eating healthier (one salad + veges every day) and getting enough sleep. I slept for 14 hours on Friday night!

Good news is that apart from jet lag which is HORRIBLE when you're not fit and healthy, I'm generally pretty sharp. This weekend I could have really used a break but I have to get a pitch done for a big client on Tuesday morning on the West Coast.

I am still glad I am doing this without adderall. I would have failed miserably with it.

[Naterdogg1]

I've actually been wondering about this myself. I think it is important to remember the good things about Adderall. The focus and energy part was great, but the side effects it had including the relationship issues, are the reason we all wanted to quit. Even the focus and energy was too much at times.

I've come across some over the counter supplements that help with exactly what you are struggling with. They aren't nearly as powerful as adderall, but that is why they are better. They're called nootropics and they actually work pretty well. There are ones that work like adderall and ones that do things adderall can't. When people can't focus the doctor prescribes them adderall. This is comparable to using a forest fire to roast a marshmallow. Using a simple nootropic such as caffeine, adrifanil, or something like rhodiola rosea would get the job done. They are like the campfire to the marshmallow. Some of them like piracetam have actually been shown to increase focus, memory, and protect and promote growth in neroplasticity. Basically, it's healthy to be taking it everyday with little to no side effects. It's actually well known as one of the safest nootropics out there.

Motivation_follows_action, you may not like lumosity, but it helps me. You may not like physical exercise, but you know it's healthy. You may not like mental exercise, but lumosity and books do help exercise the mind. http://www.whatarenootropics.com/ http://www.buildingbrainpower.com/get-smarter-sample/

I just re-read my post too, it almost sounds like I'm trying to promote this website, but I swear I'm not. It just helped me a ton.

Its either this or coping with yourself the way you are. im not saying one is better than the other(supplements vs. coping) but other people might be happier with supplements. Also longecity.com has an incredible amount of info regarding supplements from people that are currently using them with great success.