If I take Phentermine, does that mean I relapse?

[SweetCarolinee]

Hey guys,

Hope all is well and everyone is having a great weekend so far.

I have to admit something to all of you because I want to keep it 100% and I want to be as honest as possible.

This morning I went to the wellness doctor/appointment my boyfriend got me for my birthday, which I asked for and wanted. It went well but I have to say, I have gained 20-very-unwanted-and-noticeable-lbs in the last 4 months and I am not happy about it and it's been driving me crazy (because I have been working out and eating kinda healthy). I guess not hard enough. I think it was the combo of quitting Adderall and being just on Zoloft and Birthcontrol, 2 medications known to make women gain weight -- me esp. The Zoloft made me crave crazy foods that I have never eaten and I wasn't even raised eating like white crabs and cookies and I would eat a full-balanced meal and still be hungry right after and it was very unnormal for me. But what is normal these days? And I don't want to make any excuses.

They put me on some crazy ass 800cals a day diet. Um what? And gave me a B12 shot in my ass. They also gave me a daily multi-vitiums, stronger B12 pills (because I can't come in for the shots the next 2 weeks; my boss is going out of town and I have to do all her events including mine) and an appetite suppressant called Phentermine.

Phentermine is a "…short-term (you can only take it a few weeks) adjunct in a regimen of weight reduction based on exercise, behavioral modification and caloric restriction…" and is a stimulate… I believe a Stage 4 and Adderall is a Stage 2. Way milder than Adderall but if I take it does this mean I relapse? And all that I have worked so hard for, will it all be gone and for nothing?

I have a 2 week supply, they just gave me it at the appointment with all the other supplements and I told them my history with Adderall. They said it's fine.

Part of me feels guilty as hell and I don't want to let you guys down or myself but another part of me just wants to take it for 2 weeks to get a jump start on my weightloss and help speed up my metabolism again. I don't know what to do.

 

If I knew the "appetite suppressant" was going to be a stimulate, I probably wouldn't have gone. Maybe I was just being naive because I am so desperate to lose the weight I put on. For my job, I am in front of or on a small stage of a large group of people, anywhere between 15-60 people (teaching them to paint) and I don't want to think people are staring at me and judging me. I want to feel comfortable in my own skin again. Maybe I need to go talk to someone? But my new health insurance starts the beginning of June.

Words of advice, anyone who is in or has been in a similar situation or suggestions, please help and let me know. I just don't know what to do anymore.

[hyper_critical]

Hey Caroline,

Thanks for sharing this with us - you did the right thing bringing it here.

I'm sorry you're struggling with weight gain early on. Many do and think about turning to supplements/drugs for help.

I can't tell you what to do. All I can do is share with you my thinking and experience, so here it is:

Every single person who snuck in weight loss and muscle building supplements to the extended inpatient I went to ended up relapsing. The people I've come across in early recovery since, either in group therapy or the rooms of AA/NA, who got clean and a few months in became obsessed with making themselves look better (and rationalize it with something convincing like "hey, what's wrong with wanting to get in shape?)...only one of them is still sober but he clearly isn't dealing with some of his underlying emotional problems. I believe this issue is even directly addressed in the NA literature, because it trips people up so often.

Now, everybody's recovery is different, but for me, I decided early on I had to draw a hard line when it came to using things like pre-workout drinks to kick start my exercise habit. Im just not willing to risk it. It was really important to me to get to a place where I could accept myself as I was and know that I'm worthy of love regardless of how I look (or think/fear I look). I had never had that before, and it is a wonderful thing.

The deal I made with myself was do whatever you need to do to get through your first year clean. I was laser focused on achieving that one goal. It was hard walking through some of those feelings/emotions at the time, but looking back, I wouldn't have had it any other way. I'm stronger and in a better place in my recovery as a result. And now, as my habits and behaviors improve, I'm starting to really make strides toward getting in shape.

I hope this helps. Good luck with your decision.

H-C

[Cassie]

Sorry you're struggling with weight. I'm with H-C in that I made it my goal to do whatever it took to get to one year sober, regardless of how I looked. It was difficult but once I reached that point I was a lot stronger mentally and physically. I knew I could always lose the weight later and that there is no quick fix for (sustained) weight loss. In fact, after long term use of stimulants many people reach a point where they begin to gain weight.

 

You've gained weight because you stopped taking speed - all of us have been there early in recovery. I don't understand the logic of the 'doctor' prescribing you another stimulant. If you gained weight because you stopped taking a stimulant, how will the same thing not happen when you take and then stop taking a similar stimulant? Sounds counterintuitive to me. I will say that people I've known that have dabbled in phentermine for weight loss have NEVER kept the weight off long term, because they never made lasting changes to their diet/lifestyle. And they acted like they were on Adderall when they took it too - speedy, chatty, agitated, etc. Your body is just going through a big adjustment being off speed and it may take some time for your metabolism to get back to normal. Patience and good eating habits are your best weapon, not drugs or starvation diets!

 

If you're going to take an antidepressant, Wellbutrin has stimulating, appetite suppressing properties. I've heard that Zoloft causes weight gain but there's no evidence that birth control pills cause weight gain. There are tons of evidence based studies on bc pills and none show any difference in weight between women on or off the pill. It's a relic of the past when the pills were different and had much more hormones. (When I worked at a nursing college I helped a lot of students do research on this topic, just FYI:) Did you ever gain weight on the pill before, when no other medications were present? Just wondering because it's really not a side effect of modern day birth control.

 

Anyway, I hope you decide not to take the phentermine because it is very similar to amphetamines and I wouldn't want it to set you back.

[Zerokewl]

Very well said HC/Cassie... I've gained about 25 pounds since adderall also weight loss was one of the reasons I started taking addys/concerta. When I wear a suit & tie strangers on the street or 7/11's  stop me to say I look like Drew Carey "before he lost the weight".  Which is pretty funny I guess  and i know the weight thing is different with women. 

 

But I just read the wikipedia page on the drug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phentermine .  Its scarily similar to adderall side effects etc. IMHO I would toss those pills and forget the Japanese porn star diet.

 

*I'm not a doctor. I'm not an expert. I'm just a dude with an opinion and elite google skillz

[BeHereNow]

Great responses on here!

 

I'm not familiar with phentermine, but it sounds scary and addictive.   I don't think there are any shortcuts when it comes to weight loss.  800 calories a day?!?!  That's a recipe for getting caught in the yo-yo of losing weight and then gaining it all back.  Unless you want to become anorexic and/or stay on the 800 calories diet for the rest of your life, you're not gonna keep the weight off by eating 800 calories a day.  Trust me.  I've tried it all.     Plus you'll be low energy, tired, malnourished, probably unable to run or be active and happy.   Another form of speed will just prolong your recovery.

 

I take Wellbutrin and it's helped me lose some weight.  Mostly by helping me be energetic and active.  Zoloft hasn't caused me to gain weight (yet), and I hope it doesn't.  Everyone is different.  But, I can say that I was on birth control from around 2000 until 2005, with no other meds.  When I stopped, all of a sudden, I lost 5 lbs without even trying.  And losing weight became a lot easier too.  I know it's not a proven side effect of birth control, but there's anecdotal evidence at least.

 

If you want to lose weight, you need to make long-term sustainable habits that you keep for life. Maybe that's part of what recovery is all about.   I've struggled with my weight in the past.  I don't know what your habits are like, but after years of struggling with it, here's what finally worked for me:

 

• The second you start to feel full, stop eating immediately.  Always.
• If you're ever tempted to overeat, just tell yourself:  It doesn't feel nice.
• Try to lose around 1 lb per week.  Anything more than that will kill your metabolism.
• Raw fruits and veggies at the bottom of your food pyramid.  Lots of protein, minimize sugar and high-glycemic foods.
• Avoid alcohol.  Whenever spend a few weeks or months not drinking, I lose weight without even trying.
• Stay physically active, and keep pushing yourself athletically.  Cardio, strength building, and stretching. Mixing it up helps too.  Running, swimming, bicycling, yoga, pilates, whatever you enjoy and can do regularly, do it!!!!
• Listen to your body!
• And perhaps most importantly:  Love your body.  Be grateful for all the amazing things it can do. 

[BeHereNow]

P.S.  I highly doubt your students even notice your weight.    I can almost guarantee that you're more judgemental about your own weight than they are.  I mean I do understand the feeling though.   But just remember, they didn't sign up for an art class just to stare at you.  They're to learn from you!

[Jon]

I'm glad you ran this by the group, SweetC. It's way too close to adderall to mess with. It's like it's adderral jr. I would be deathly afraid that it would trigger adderall cravings.

 

The temporary weight swing is just part of the dues we owe. It's perfectly normal.

 

Read all about Phentermine on the wikipedia link below:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phentermine

 

Let your good sense make this decision for you, SweetC. You posess so much knowledge about good nutrition and exercise, I can only see you making the right choice. 

[Cassie]

You might want to read these articles by Cat Marnell, a writer who used to work for xojane.com. She's an adderall addict and she talks about how when she went off adderall she gained 30 pounds over 6 months. It's normal. 

 

http://www.xojane.com/beauty/thinnerrr-ritual-cleanse-made-me-drop-8-pounds-and-i-m-still-losing-weight

 

http://www.xojane.com/healthy/addiction-diaries-why-we-all-need-get-adderall

[SweetCarolinee]

Hey guys,

Thank you so much for your answers, it means a lot to me and I agree with ALL of you. I knew not to take this shit the whole time but was just being an idiot. Sadly to say, I did take it Saturday… I knew in my heart not too but it was an act of desperation and that fact I had access to something that will make me lose weight without even trying and fast but surely not the answer or true way to keep the weight off.

It's pretty ironic because up until I moved to FL, at the beginning of April, I still had my 3-month supply of 50mg of Vyvanse and never once touched it, looked at it or wanted to take it and I never did. Right before I left for FL, I gave the pills to my mom (who I know would never take them and would know what to do with them). But as soon as I got my hands on some appetite suppressant I went ape shit.

Saturday, I didn't eat anything and went to a house party, partied my ass off and drank way too much. Sunday, yesterday, I was super hungover and threw up 10 times, couldn't eat anything until 6pm and had to work last night but I got my shit together and taught an awesome Mother's Day Paint Nite class. My heart still hurts a little. I'm still trying to figure out what to do, I haven't taken it today nor do I want too. But if I have them I'm more likely to take them. I may call the doctor and bring them back or see if they have a herbal one instead. Thank you guys again, I feel so ashamed. Unfortunately, I've always known the only thing that would ever make me want to do a stimulate again is weight loss related.

When my new health insurance kicks in, in a few weeks and I'm still struggling maybe I will explore Wellbutrin.

 

And thanks for the articles, I didn't get time to read them yet, I have to go meet up with my boss in 15minutes but when I get back I plan on reading them.

[Zerokewl]

I'm a seriously annoyed that a health care professional prescribed this crap after you told them you have a history of abusing stims.  

[SweetCarolinee]

Yeah, I'm pretty pissed too but at the end of the day it's my own fault and I gotta take accountability.

But, the good news is I made a decision and I'm not taking anymore of the Phentermine. Hopefully, this was just a minor roadblock, detour and setback and I can continue on my journey of health, recovery and healing.

Thank you all for your advice, it helped a lot and you all were just restating what I already knew in my head and heart.

Today I have to do 2 paintings and an event tonight but tomorrow I'm going back to the place and bringing the Phentermine and giving them back because I don't want or need them. It really did remind me of Adderall too much and made my heart hurt. Also, it made me not eat and feel weird and not in a good way. It also reminded me of Adderall in the fact, all I wanted to do was drink on it and that is so unhealthy and not me anymore or the person I want to be or become. I will see if they have something all natural or herbal instead.

Last night, before bed I couldn't fall asleep and I checked my e-mail and I read an e-mail from "TUT…A Note from the Universe" and it said:

"The long and short of it goes something like this…

When one stops looking for the quick and easy way, Caroline, and just deals with what's already on their plate, the quick and easy way soon finds them."

I couldn't believe it, I related so much to this saying and I'm taking this as a sign!

I also haven't given 100% to lose any of the weight I've gained, I've tried a little so time for me to put more effort into it. It's been a little harder lately because I've been so busy with the new job, which I love by the way and is so much fun, I haven't gotten to work out as much as I wanted and it's definitely put a damper on my mood. I need to make it a priority to try to work out as much as possible because that just helps with overall well-being and awesomeness. Haha the first time I reread this, I wrote "make out" instead of work out… more making out and working out, foo sure!
 

Thanks everyone again, you all are the shit

[SweetCarolinee]

I just got in a 4 mile run and I feel great and high on life. This is the way/path I want to take towards my health goals!!! What I really need to do is go to yoga again. I have really missed it the last month and a half since I've stopped going and moved and started a new job. I need yoga back in my life asap.

[LILTEX41]

I just want to say I'm really proud of you Sweet Caroline for your honesty.  You could've easily let you stimulant addiction sneak in the back door again, but you came here instead and shared.  That is so AWESOME!  You are truly on a great path to recovery. 

 

Cassie,

 

Loved the articles you posted!  Those once again remind me why I am not to turn to drugs for weight loss...EVER again.  Yes, it is the easy way out in the beginning, but eventually you get screwed in the end by this nasty drug.  I need to keep this in mind every time I struggle with weight issues.  THANK YOU!

[Shambo]

I love this thread. I read every word. Such great stuff here. I needed this.

[SweetCarolinee]

Thank you again everyone for all your help and support. I haven't touched it since and don't plan too. I have come too far and fought too hard to go back down the rabbit hole. I went back to the doctors today and got another B-12 shot and some herbal supplements instead. I also hiked on this wildlife park on an island for 5 miles in the beautiful sunshine. My anxiety is up a little tonight and I'm not sure why and I hope this will pass soon. We'll see how it goes!!!

[Helpme]

Hello Caroline! I just wanted to share I was almost a year off adderall, I was taking wellbutrin which helped a lot. Then one day, I started to take Phentermine which then led me to start taking adderall again! So I would recommend not to take it

[SweetCarolinee]

Thank you so much Helpme... I decided NOT to take the Phentermine. They wouldn't take it back even thow the lady told me to bring it. So I'm gonna throw it out or I'm supposed to bring it down to the police station.

[Helpme]

I'm so glad!

[SweetCarolinee]

[MadHatter]

I have battled my weight my entire life whether on adderall or off. Before I even heard of adderall I lost 90lbs with sheer willpower and discipline. Here's the one thing I've learned over the past decade that's always held true.

 

calories in vs calories out.

 

If you can manage to burn more calories than you take in then you will lose weight.

 

Start with this calculator http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/. It'll give you your basal metabolic rate. Basically it tells you how many calories a day you burn doing nothing, which is pretty sweet because they're almost freebie calories. Once you get this baseline, just add the calories you burn from exercise and subtract the calories from this number that you eat.

 

for example: say with your body weight, height, and age you have a BMR of 1500 calories. You burn 350 calories running and eat 1600 calories. That means you are at -250 calories for the day.

 

 

once you reach -3500, you will lose 1 solid pound. It may take you 2 weeks or even a month but I promise you it will add up and you will lose weight that will stay off. This is the healthiest way to do it.

 

Best advice I can give you is to start a food journal or use a phone app to record your food/exercise intake daily for at least a month. This helps you track the calories and really makes you aware of what you are eating.

 

So far I've lost 16lbs doing this over the course of 2 months but i'm also alot heavier than you i'm sure   so don't expect to lose that much in such a short time. 

 

Remember to not get discouraged. Much like our recovery, nutrition and exercise is a lifestyle change and results are not instantaneous.

[SweetCarolinee]

Thank you so much MadHatter.

I really appreciate your feedback and advice on this, so much. I will definitely try this. I have tried in the past to "keep track of my food/calories" and workout but haven't given it 100%. And I have been drinking too much, which slows down your metabolism. Also, I haven't been able to workout as much as I wanted because I started a new job. I just need to stuck it up, stop making excuses, follow your advice and just do it. I definitely want to start going to yoga again, as well.

I will let you know how it goes a little later on and thanks again!

Also, congrats on losing all that weight, that is AMAZING and you should be so proud of yourself.

[tinybuddha]

Cat Marnell has wrote extensively about adderall and addiction in a very honest way. Tragically, I think she currently is back in relapse. Thanks for sharing the links. I find reading these articles and knowing now after it comes full circle what it is really like helps on my trigger days.