DelaneyJuliette

Ambivalence

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So...  I had a month off of all this crap and it was great.  And now I've had about 4 months back on it and it was great at the beginning and it has become not great again, like always.  The first time around, this forum was a godsend.  I literally donated the second I found it b/c I knew it was exactly what I needed.  I read posts every day and posted almost every day.  But I have been avoiding it for a few months b/c I am still in ambivalence.  And I'm not sure if that's allowed.  Or, I'm sure it is on some level, but I fear that I need to be committed before I post.  But I'm doing it anyway b/c I feel like this forum is the closest any group has ever come to understanding my struggle.  I did great for that month (I mean, it was hard, but I was free.)  But now I feel like I don't have a life that allows me to be without stimulants.  A part of me is aware that that way of thinking is old addict justification.  But a part of me thinks I'd have to change my life so drastically I don't know if I could do it.   I have 4 kids and my own business.  I'm sure I could do it.  But... is it worth it?  I mean a part of me knows it is... that's why I'm here.  But then... the day happens... and there's so much to do... and FUCK.  So I don't know.  Maybe you will all tell me to go away and come back when I'm certain.  Lol, I doubt you will, but there's always that chance.  I think I am posting on here though b/c I want help.  I want help without being shamed.  I do have other support in my life.  But what do you do when you aren't yet in the "action" stage of change?  I am wavering between contemplation and preparation right now.  And then I tell myself I need to take like a whole week off to do this.  Which I don't think I am willing to do.  (I was going to say I don't think I CAN do, but I mean, if I had cancer I'd take a week off, right?)  The last time I quit I LITERALLY planned a surgery that would keep me home for a week in order to do this.  I was so proud of myself.  But there are SO MANY MIXED MESSAGES!  Even my therapist is like, "well maybe you don't need to quit completely."  And I just don't know!  So.  That is what is going on with me.  :( 

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I did that kind of addict justification for months and years.  Trust me you can still handle your current life without stimulants.  Most likely way better.  It might not seem better when you initially quit but you can handle it.  And you'll be much more present with your 4 kids and way more self aware about your business... opposed to just speeding through the day being a productive machine.  Its not a sustainable way of life.

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thanks for sharing and being so honest! first of all, no one here is judging you. in fact, most of us have relapsed in a very similar fashion. most of us have tried several times to quit before finally succeeding. this is all part of the process, so don't beat yourself up over it.

here's honestly what it comes down to: everyone has different circumstances in life - i certainly don't have 4 kids or run my own business. that must be really toughif quitting would genuinely put my family's survival at risk, i'm not sure i would do it. only you can answer that question. is that really why you're using again? but on the other hand, no one would quit Adderall if it didn't eventually become "not so great", right? there is of course a period of time where the good seems to outweigh the bad, then eventually it flips. you admit yourself that you're already at that point again.

fortunately though, you've already recognized that Adderall isn't a long term solution. that's probably the biggest hurdle of all! once you realize this, there may still be some relapse episodes, self-doubt, etc. but deep down you know eventually it has to stop. you're already on a one-way ride to recovery, it might slow down here and there, but rest assured that your commitment to this journey remains. (:

 

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17 hours ago, Tom23Jones said:

I did that kind of addict justification for months and years.  Trust me you can still handle your current life without stimulants.  Most likely way better.  It might not seem better when you initially quit but you can handle it.  And you'll be much more present with your 4 kids and way more self aware about your business... opposed to just speeding through the day being a productive machine.  Its not a sustainable way of life.

When I woke up yesterday I really resonated with your post.  But then I gave in mid-day.  :(

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16 hours ago, sleepystupid said:

thanks for sharing and being so honest! first of all, no one here is judging you. in fact, most of us have relapsed in a very similar fashion. most of us have tried several times to quit before finally succeeding. this is all part of the process, so don't beat yourself up over it.

here's honestly what it comes down to: everyone has different circumstances in life - i certainly don't have 4 kids or run my own business. that must be really toughif quitting would genuinely put my family's survival at risk, i'm not sure i would do it. only you can answer that question. is that really why you're using again? but on the other hand, no one would quit Adderall if it didn't eventually become "not so great", right? there is of course a period of time where the good seems to outweigh the bad, then eventually it flips. you admit yourself that you're already at that point again.

fortunately though, you've already recognized that Adderall isn't a long term solution. that's probably the biggest hurdle of all! once you realize this, there may still be some relapse episodes, self-doubt, etc. but deep down you know eventually it has to stop. you're already on a one-way ride to recovery, it might slow down here and there, but rest assured that your commitment to this journey remains. (:

 

Thank you so much.  Your words are so reassuring.  It's clearly not true that quitting would genuinely put my family's survival at risk... it's just that I don't know how to get through the days to get to the other side.  :(

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On 4/2/2020 at 3:18 AM, DelaneyJuliette said:

So...  I had a month off of all this crap and it was great.  And now I've had about 4 months back on it and it was great at the beginning and it has become not great again, like always.  The first time around, this forum was a godsend.  I literally donated the second I found it b/c I knew it was exactly what I needed.  I read posts every day and posted almost every day.  But I have been avoiding it for a few months b/c I am still in ambivalence.  And I'm not sure if that's allowed.  Or, I'm sure it is on some level, but I fear that I need to be committed before I post.  But I'm doing it anyway b/c I feel like this forum is the closest any group has ever come to understanding my struggle.  I did great for that month (I mean, it was hard, but I was free.)  But now I feel like I don't have a life that allows me to be without stimulants.  A part of me is aware that that way of thinking is old addict justification.  But a part of me thinks I'd have to change my life so drastically I don't know if I could do it.   I have 4 kids and my own business.  I'm sure I could do it.  But... is it worth it?  I mean a part of me knows it is... that's why I'm here.  But then... the day happens... and there's so much to do... and FUCK.  So I don't know.  Maybe you will all tell me to go away and come back when I'm certain.  Lol, I doubt you will, but there's always that chance.  I think I am posting on here though b/c I want help.  I want help without being shamed.  I do have other support in my life.  But what do you do when you aren't yet in the "action" stage of change?  I am wavering between contemplation and preparation right now.  And then I tell myself I need to take like a whole week off to do this.  Which I don't think I am willing to do.  (I was going to say I don't think I CAN do, but I mean, if I had cancer I'd take a week off, right?)  The last time I quit I LITERALLY planned a surgery that would keep me home for a week in order to do this.  I was so proud of myself.  But there are SO MANY MIXED MESSAGES!  Even my therapist is like, "well maybe you don't need to quit completely."  And I just don't know!  So.  That is what is going on with me.  :( 

I can relate and understand everything you’re saying. Hang in there. I’m thinking of you. Are you still seeing clients (what with COVID-19 going on)?

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8 hours ago, DelaneyJuliette said:

When I woke up yesterday I really resonated with your post.  But then I gave in mid-day.  :(

Eventually you'll draw a line in the sand and say no fucking more adderall.  It sounds so simple but one day something clicks and your just like for better or worse, no matter what hell I have to push through, I'm not going to take that shit again.  I'm going to grind the days, weeks, months, years to get back to my natural self... sounds like your getting close to that point.

Once you really commit and you know its no longer an option because you promise to yourself, its very freeing. Sure there are shitty times but even the rough times are so much better than the daily circus going on in your mind on whether to quit now, or ever, or maybe tomorrow, and then feeling shame because you used again, etc.  Its a vicious cycle that is just not sustainable.... once the shit is even a little bit not fun, and tolerance goes up, and the happy excitement wears off, its the beginning of the end.

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On 4/2/2020 at 3:18 AM, DelaneyJuliette said:

So...  I had a month off of all this crap and it was great.  And now I've had about 4 months back on it and it was great at the beginning and it has become not great again, like always.  The first time around, this forum was a godsend.  I literally donated the second I found it b/c I knew it was exactly what I needed.  I read posts every day and posted almost every day.  But I have been avoiding it for a few months b/c I am still in ambivalence.  And I'm not sure if that's allowed.  Or, I'm sure it is on some level, but I fear that I need to be committed before I post.  But I'm doing it anyway b/c I feel like this forum is the closest any group has ever come to understanding my struggle.  I did great for that month (I mean, it was hard, but I was free.)  But now I feel like I don't have a life that allows me to be without stimulants.  A part of me is aware that that way of thinking is old addict justification.  But a part of me thinks I'd have to change my life so drastically I don't know if I could do it.   I have 4 kids and my own business.  I'm sure I could do it.  But... is it worth it?  I mean a part of me knows it is... that's why I'm here.  But then... the day happens... and there's so much to do... and FUCK.  So I don't know.  Maybe you will all tell me to go away and come back when I'm certain.  Lol, I doubt you will, but there's always that chance.  I think I am posting on here though b/c I want help.  I want help without being shamed.  I do have other support in my life.  But what do you do when you aren't yet in the "action" stage of change?  I am wavering between contemplation and preparation right now.  And then I tell myself I need to take like a whole week off to do this.  Which I don't think I am willing to do.  (I was going to say I don't think I CAN do, but I mean, if I had cancer I'd take a week off, right?)  The last time I quit I LITERALLY planned a surgery that would keep me home for a week in order to do this.  I was so proud of myself.  But there are SO MANY MIXED MESSAGES!  Even my therapist is like, "well maybe you don't need to quit completely."  And I just don't know!  So.  That is what is going on with me.  :( 

I don’t think I would have managed to quit/stay quit if I continued to have access to Adderall. Cutting off my supplier was a necessity for me. And that is an ongoing process - continuing to cut myself off from access to stimulants since most addicts know who they know that is on it and that equals “access”...for me right now, that is my neighbor. He is both a reminder of why I quit because he’s really in the throes of The diminishing returns in his Adderall addiction, As well as a reminder that I could always ask him if he could spare a little - ARGH. Anyway, addiction is addiction, it’s not a character defect, it’s not a moral issue. There’s nothing *wrong* with YOU. You’re an amazing, strong, determined mother, professional, etc., whose brain got addicted, and you, of course, never tried for that to happen. None of us did. It’s a total bait-and-switch. We got hooked while trying to better our lives. Don’t give up. You’ll figure it out. 

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2 hours ago, Tom23Jones said:

Eventually you'll draw a line in the sand and say no fucking more adderall.  It sounds so simple but one day something clicks and your just like for better or worse, no matter what hell I have to push through, I'm not going to take that shit again.  I'm going to grind the days, weeks, months, years to get back to my natural self... sounds like your getting close to that point.

Once you really commit and you know its no longer an option because you promise to yourself, its very freeing. Sure there are shitty times but even the rough times are so much better than the daily circus going on in your mind on whether to quit now, or ever, or maybe tomorrow, and then feeling shame because you used again, etc.  Its a vicious cycle that is just not sustainable.... once the shit is even a little bit not fun, and tolerance goes up, and the happy excitement wears off, its the beginning of the end.

Today, I will go without adderall.  I have made it to 1:45pm, I can and will make it the rest of the day.  :)

 

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GOOD FOR YOU!!!!! It really helps me to take it a day at a time; an hour at a time; 15-minutes at a time...

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57 minutes ago, DelaneyJuliette said:

Today, I will go without adderall.  I have made it to 1:45pm, I can and will make it the rest of the day.  :)

 

One day at a time is the best way to think about it.  Even after you draw that line in the sand and commit to quitting for good, its still best to think about it one day at a time.  When I quit adderall and then again when I gave up alcohol, I would obsess about these hypothetical future events where I would not survive without adderall or boos.  i.e. an important day at work with no sleep, a siblings bachelor party or wedding, taking care of a new born... finally I said fuck that, I'll get through today and cross those bridges when they get here.

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@DelaneyJuliette you’re always welcome on here! I can relate to how you are feeling. I think we all can in some way. Think about it, you’re hanging out on a forum about quitting Adderall. And you have been for a while. You know you need to quit. But you don’t want to, because it sucks. I REALLY didn’t want to quit. But I’m still alive almost 2 years later and so glad that I did. How did you survive raising your kids and running the business during the month you were sober? Did it all crash and burn? I read through a lot of your old posts. You waste a ton of time on Adderall as we all did or do. Browsing Etsy, making lists of movies, etc..

When you’re ready to do this, you’ll probably get through it without losing everything that you love. If you keep using indefinitely, you just might lose it all. Keep wrestling with it. Ponder deeply. The middle ground between two choices is an uncomfortable place to be, but we so often chose to stay there. You can do this.

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On 4/3/2020 at 5:53 PM, DrewK15 said:

@DelaneyJuliette you’re always welcome on here! I can relate to how you are feeling. I think we all can in some way. Think about it, you’re hanging out on a forum about quitting Adderall. And you have been for a while. You know you need to quit. But you don’t want to, because it sucks. I REALLY didn’t want to quit. But I’m still alive almost 2 years later and so glad that I did. How did you survive raising your kids and running the business during the month you were sober? Did it all crash and burn? I read through a lot of your old posts. You waste a ton of time on Adderall as we all did or do. Browsing Etsy, making lists of movies, etc..

When you’re ready to do this, you’ll probably get through it without losing everything that you love. If you keep using indefinitely, you just might lose it all. Keep wrestling with it. Ponder deeply. The middle ground between two choices is an uncomfortable place to be, but we so often chose to stay there. You can do this.

Thanks for all of you responding; it helps me so much.  I am so damn frustrated by this ambivalence I'm experiencing lately.  I was so freaking proud of myself for quitting for a month and now it just seems like I can't do it again!  After posting on here I made it 2 days.  Then I gave in again and it's like, holy shit I can do stuff again.  I know I have to go through a period where I have to be okay with not "being productive" but it is SO hard!  And then it makes me swing to extremes.  Like, quitting cold turkey, then using way too much b/c "I know I'm just going to quit again anyway" all of which i KNOW is not helpful!!  UGH.  So then I wonder if I should do a slow taper like I did last time and it really worked.  But then I think maybe I can't trust myself to do that.  And then I wonder if I can't just take it "regularly" going forward.  I like it when you guys (gently) ;) call me out on my distorted thinking b/c I know you're right and I am super insightful and open to feedback.  It baffles me how I can be so insightful and yet so stuck here.  I mean, on one hand it baffles me, on the other it's a no brainer b/c that's what addiction IS.  UGH.  I want to just get back to where I was at the end of that month!  I really feel like I can't make it through full time work and virtual school for 4 kids right now without it.  But that is again just justification.  UGH!!!

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Ambivalence is such an appropriate TOPIC. And it’s definitely where I’m at right now. I slipped-up and asked my neighbor for a few pills. I felt so crappy on Sunday and Monday that I just caved to the idea that a small amount of Adderall - a little limited supply - was necessary. I would argue that my recovery over the past six months since I cut off my psychiatrist has been quite messy. I am seeing now that there is quite a degree to which I am not fully facing the music in that in addition to this being the third time I’ve gotten a few pills from my neighbor, I’ve been going around and around in circles trying to find supplements, OTC meds, teas, whatever, to feel better- to avoid dealing with ME without Adderall. Last week I got a few good runs in, but I jacked up my back as a result, so couldn’t do more runs. I’m so all-or-nothing. So, the past couple of days, I’ve taken a small amount of Adderall. And now I’m in a real state of ambivalence. And I feel like a liar. Or at least like I’m being dishonest. I know my boyfriend could tell yesterday that I had used. And I am shocked that I acted like nothing was “going on”. It was such a relief to feel energized and motivated and upbeat yesterday. It was like feeling “NORMAL”!!! I need to re-read my posts on here over the past six months. Lately I’d really been feeling like or I guess, FEARING that I’ll never really recover or feel good again. Life on Adderall is not sustainable, and life in recovery from it is ROUGH and rather joyless. I’d been trying really hard to fight the good fight. I believe that from here I have no alternative but to take a new approach to my recovery: one that is more pure and basic. No more dicking around with so many supplements and teas and caffeine and special diets, etc. And! I need to find a way to cut off my current source (my neighbor) But, I still have a few pills. And so I’m feeling terribly ambivalent. 

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9 minutes ago, LuLamb said:

I believe that from here I have no alternative but to take a new approach to my recovery: one that is more pure and basic. No more dicking around with so many supplements and teas and caffeine and special diets, etc. And! I need to find a way to cut off my current source (my neighbor)

^ totally this - well said!

i think the trap with supplements is two fold - 1) most of them are bogus to begin with, 2) it reinforces the idea that there must be some "replacement" for Adderall. to be fair, i did use Wellbutrin for a couple of years after - it happened to work very well for me, but i can understand how many people would be wary of moving over to another prescription medication.

but DEFINITELY cut off your source. @DelaneyJuliette, perhaps the solution to ambivalence is getting rid of your supply and just cutting off the source? we all know that if push comes to shove you could go find another doctor and secure a supply somehow, but you need to at least throw up some hurdles so the addict side of your mind has some resistance. right now your will power isn't strong enough to out reason the addict - that's fine! everyone in recovery eventually has a big "ah ha!" moment of clarity, but you need to give yourself enough time to reach it. (:

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I just cut off my most recent supplier (my neighbor). I told him that I've turned him into my supplier and that I can't keep slipping down that slope anymore. I said I'd never ask him for Adderall again, but said, "just to be sure: please don't ever give me any or offer me any every again anyway. I've got to get that monkey off my back and keep it off. Thanks." He said, "OK. I understand. I hope everything is ok."

There's a weird irony to using again: it gives me the "energy" to re-commit myself to abstinence.  

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On 4/3/2020 at 10:28 AM, LuLamb said:

I can relate and understand everything you’re saying. Hang in there. I’m thinking of you. Are you still seeing clients (what with COVID-19 going on)?

99% telehealth now

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On 4/9/2020 at 9:55 AM, sleepystupid said:

^ totally this - well said!

i think the trap with supplements is two fold - 1) most of them are bogus to begin with, 2) it reinforces the idea that there must be some "replacement" for Adderall. to be fair, i did use Wellbutrin for a couple of years after - it happened to work very well for me, but i can understand how many people would be wary of moving over to another prescription medication.

but DEFINITELY cut off your source. @DelaneyJuliette, perhaps the solution to ambivalence is getting rid of your supply and just cutting off the source? we all know that if push comes to shove you could go find another doctor and secure a supply somehow, but you need to at least throw up some hurdles so the addict side of your mind has some resistance. right now your will power isn't strong enough to out reason the addict - that's fine! everyone in recovery eventually has a big "ah ha!" moment of clarity, but you need to give yourself enough time to reach it. (:

I feel like I need to taper down first.  That could be b.s. thinking on my end, but it worked last time.  I haven't been able to get myself to do it again.  I am starting tomorrow.  

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On 4/9/2020 at 9:55 AM, sleepystupid said:

^ totally this - well said!

i think the trap with supplements is two fold - 1) most of them are bogus to begin with, 2) it reinforces the idea that there must be some "replacement" for Adderall. to be fair, i did use Wellbutrin for a couple of years after - it happened to work very well for me, but i can understand how many people would be wary of moving over to another prescription medication.

but DEFINITELY cut off your source. @DelaneyJuliette, perhaps the solution to ambivalence is getting rid of your supply and just cutting off the source? we all know that if push comes to shove you could go find another doctor and secure a supply somehow, but you need to at least throw up some hurdles so the addict side of your mind has some resistance. right now your will power isn't strong enough to out reason the addict - that's fine! everyone in recovery eventually has a big "ah ha!" moment of clarity, but you need to give yourself enough time to reach it. (:

I know that I won't cut off my source until I am detoxed.  I have been on and off this shit for almost 20 years, and when I just go cold turkey and cut everything off with no possibility of a taper things get bad.  I really would have to stop my life for a week or two to do that.  (Which maybe I should consider) but in the meantime I can't get rid of it all (or I won't.)  But, clearly there was some ambivalence lying around during that month b/c I never actually made it a priority to cut off the source and lock up the hubby's.  So in my weak moment it was there.  Day by day.  (And yet, I am fucking alone in my office AGAIN getting no sleep and being away from who matters most to me in the world - my kids.)  So yeah...  I really need to stop.  A part of me feels like I am being dramatic and that I can just use it regularly and I don't need to keep abusing it.  But that has never actually worked long term, so a part of me knows that is addict voice.  I just don't want it to be.  I need to have some tools to utilize when I'm in that moment of triggered crisis where I am at a choice point.  B/c just relying on myself to make the right choice for me clearly isn't enough. 

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10 hours ago, DelaneyJuliette said:

I really would have to stop my life for a week or two to do that.  (Which maybe I should consider)

Whats a week or two in the grand scheme of things? Tapering may work for some people but I know it would have never worked for myself. I needed to tear the bandaid off and suffer and push through.  No way would I have had the discipline to do a gradual taper.

 

10 hours ago, DelaneyJuliette said:

I never actually made it a priority to cut off the source and lock up the hubby's

Have you ever been 100% honest to your husband the havoc that adderall wrecks on your mind and body?  Do you think he'd consider giving it up completely with you?  Even if it works for him now, he'll most likely eventually get to a point where it causes him hell.

 

10 hours ago, DelaneyJuliette said:

I can just use it regularly and I don't need to keep abusing it

Its never going to happen.  Its just not

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2 hours ago, Tom23Jones said:

Whats a week or two in the grand scheme of things? Tapering may work for some people but I know it would have never worked for myself. I needed to tear the bandaid off and suffer and push through.  No way would I have had the discipline to do a gradual taper.

I don't know how to do that right now with all the fear of economic insecurity.  I work for myself and I would have to cancel all my clients.  I intellectually understand this is a potentially good option but I can't get there emotionally on my own. 

Have you ever been 100% honest to your husband the havoc that adderall wrecks on your mind and body?  Do you think he'd consider giving it up completely with you?  Even if it works for him now, he'll most likely eventually get to a point where it causes him hell.

He would consider giving it up, but I just...  again, that fucking ambivalence.  He knows it HAS caused havoc, he's not acutely aware that I'm back in the spiral.  Though he is aware that I am there right now.  

Its never going to happen.  Its just not

How can I make myself believe that?

 

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1 hour ago, DelaneyJuliette said:

He would consider giving it up, but I just...  again, that fucking ambivalence.  He knows it HAS caused havoc, he's not acutely aware that I'm back in the spiral.  Though he is aware that I am there right now.  

I think you telling him just how bad you are spiraling will be your proverbial "line in the sand" moment. I believe committing to quit together would be the best option.  Theres no way I could live with my wife using adderall while I was first quitting.  I would have had so much resentment towards her and jealousy of her fake motivation.

 

1 hour ago, DelaneyJuliette said:

How can I make myself believe that?

We already know this.  We just have to keep finding out the hard way just to know for sure.  

We just keep chasing whats unreachable. 

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11 minutes ago, Tom23Jones said:

I think you telling him just how bad you are spiraling will be your proverbial "line in the sand" moment. I believe committing to quit together would be the best option.  Theres no way I could live with my wife using adderall while I was first quitting.  I would have had so much resentment towards her and jealousy of her fake motivation.

 

We already know this.  We just have to keep finding out the hard way just to know for sure.  

We just keep chasing whats unreachable. 

 

11 minutes ago, Tom23Jones said:

I think you telling him just how bad you are spiraling will be your proverbial "line in the sand" moment. I believe committing to quit together would be the best option.  Theres no way I could live with my wife using adderall while I was first quitting.  I would have had so much resentment towards her and jealousy of her fake motivation.

 

We already know this.  We just have to keep finding out the hard way just to know for sure.  

We just keep chasing whats unreachable. 

Yes.  I am chasing what is unreachable.  It is utter insanity.  And I am a fucking substance abuse counselor.  This is not for lack of knowledge.  I feel so scared of not being able to do life without it.  I also feel so scared of the comedown.  UGH.  I am trying so hard for there to be a third option between quitting and not quitting.  And I am fooling myself. 

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On 4/14/2020 at 11:06 PM, DelaneyJuliette said:

I need to have some tools to utilize when I'm in that moment of triggered crisis where I am at a choice point.  B/c just relying on myself to make the right choice for me clearly isn't enough. 

by your own admission, you cannot rely on yourself to make the right choice - so cut off your source so the choice is made for you. it's a very simple but powerful step - it's also the type of decision that your addict brain can't easily argue its way around (though it will try). any amount of addict logic at that point amounts to "i don't want to cut off my source cause... i may want to use again". 

the other argument is "i may HAVE to use again" - ...or else what? your life collapses before your eyes? that's ALREADY happening! really, seriously ask yourself: in a hypothetical moment in the future when you think you'll HAVE to use again, what happens if you just don't? 

19 hours ago, DelaneyJuliette said:

I feel so scared of not being able to do life without it.  I also feel so scared of the comedown.  UGH.  I am trying so hard for there to be a third option between quitting and not quitting.  And I am fooling myself. 

"to do life" is the addict way of thinking. do you just want to do life? or do you want to live life? (:

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