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Pills. It is universally accepted that taking a pill can make you feel better. It cracks me up how much faith most Americans have in the magical solution that a little tiny pill can offer them. My relationship with pills began with my earliest memories of taking Flinstone's Vitamins. It was fun to take those pills - I could dig my favorite flinstone character out ot the bottle, play with them first, and and either swallow it whole or bite off dino's head - they had a really good cherry flavor. As a four-year-old, I was busted by my mom hiding under the kitchen table eating and playing with my entire bottle of Flinstones Vitamins. She freaked out and called the doctor who just laughed it off and told her not to worry - that if anything, it would do more good than harm. They were MY pills, right? so why couldn't I just gobble the entire bottle? I was scolded and got a good lesson about the dangers of taking too many pills all at once. But I also learned that taking pills could be fun - Fred, Wilma, Barney and Betty all endorsed them on TV so they couldn't be that bad for ya, right? Fred Flinstone made TV commercials for Winston Cigarettes, too. Yabba Dabba Doo!
I have taken pills my entire life - chewable vitamin C as kid, long-term tetracycline therapy for my acne as a teenager; asperin and excederin for the minor aches and pains, and opioids for the major injuries and operations. I discovered speed in high school and college, but back in the 80's, prescription stimulants were scarce so I mostly took No-Doze, Vivarin and Dexatrim for the late-night studies and term paper cramming in college.
When I began taking adderall, I was already an experienced pill-popper, so it was within my comfort zone to dose up and re-up throughout the day. And taking adderall was really, really fun. I also tried to take calcium supplements and vitamin C while on adderall, but had to be careful about when to take the vitamin C (or drink anything citrus) so it would not kill the adderall buzz. When I ceased taking adderall, I replaced one pill habit with another - I began taking lots of supplements: L-Tyrosine, multivitamins, vitamin C,vitamin D, Vitamin E, fish oil, calcium with minerals, and a GNC pilll called Thermo Burst Super Hard Core energy supplement (that name just cracks me up). Now, I didn't take all of these every day, but I would take some pills with each meal. I started needing to take a Tums once and a while to deal with the heartburn caused by poor food choices or too many supplements. I also started a short course of Chantix after ceasing adderall and I am not sure that was a good thing, but it did work to help me kick the cigs.
About a month ago, I did a week-long cleanse and detox thing called the Master Cleanser where you cannot eat food or take pills. I felt great during and afterword, and it got me thinking that I really don't need to be taking as many pills. I followed the Master Cleanser with another two-week long pill cleanse - where I did not take anything in pill form, not even a Tums. And I felt great. Lately I have been taking a few energy / weight loss supplements along with an occasional tyrosine pill for a better mood, but for the most part I have remained pill-free. I don't think all pills are bad but I do believe I was taking way more pills than I really needed. There is no substitute for sensible nutrition, regular meals, mindful eating, and adequate sleep. Good hydration is also really important and I have forcing myself to drink three bottles of water a day, no matter what else I do or drink. I still have 25 lbs of excess body fat to eliminate this summer. I am not planning on going off all pills, but I do plan to incorporate MINDFUL pill-popping into my lifestyle. Does anybody else have an opinion about pills, in general?
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I am gonna keep asking you the hard questions. Did your experience with adderall made you dumber and lazier than you were before taking it, or did it transform a smart, abiitious teenager into a lazy dumb-ass who cannot even get out of bed on time each day? In your opinion, what is "normal" for you? What are your future goals and ambitions that you suspect adderall has fucked with?
I am concerned that you are setting yourself up for living in the past and blaming adderall for all that went wrong in your life. Accept the changes, challenges, and opportunities that GROWTH provides all of us. Little kids grow up. College kids grow smarter. We grow into things and we grow out of things as adults, and then we grow old. When one quits growing they become mentally stale.
What you perceive to be "normal" is how you felt and acted before your experience with adderall and finding your B12 deficiency. But things were not perfect then because you were looking for a solution in the form of a pill called adderall. So you might never again feel like you did before taking adderall, not just because you took the adderall, but because the times and experiences of your life have continued and you have continued to grow with time. It's just one of life's many challenges; deal with it.
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I have gained a new perspective and learned a good lesson from this conversation. Thank you, pkr.
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What if the answer to your worst-case scenario was yes? What if there was hard evidence supported by clinical trials which proved that ANY amphetamime use caused these permanamt changes in the brain? Including your loss of pre-adderall motivation? Would you just say 'fuck it' and go back on adderall for the rest of your life?
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I want to make a comment about empathy.
There are times when having less empathy can be a good thing - let me explain. I used adderall to combat depression and also to be the superman I needed to be while helping my mother through her final years of old age. I knew at the time that I was less emotional and had less empathy, but was that a bad thing? I believe that having less empathy enabled me to be more objective in every angle of her care. By not getting caught up in the emotional turmoil of seeing Mom's health in a long and gradual decline I was able to focus on the tasks at hand - like researching all of her medications, interactions, and different diseases and ailments. Adderall gave me the energy and endurance I needed to do the work and upkeep around her home when I came by every weekend (I lived in another state). I would take her to her doctors appointments when I could and help make informed decisions regarding her care and treatment. Adderall gave me incredible patience and I never got angry or frustrated with my elderly mother (except that one time in the grocery store). Even while she was in the nursing home, I would review and research her medications and medical care and have informed discussions with her doctors. Adderall helped me to overlook the hellish conditions of a place where people go to die.
The reason I found this topic interesting was because I had a conversation with her about empathy one time and it went something like this:
Mom: You would have made a good doctor. You have done far more for me than all of my doctors combined.
Me: I would make a lousy doctor because I don't have enough empathy and I really don't enjoy dealing with people and their health problems.
Mom: But that isn't true - You have plenty of empathy for me
Me: That's because you're my mom.
Having less empathy isn't always a bad thing, especially when emotions could influence your decisions.
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I am looking for women too, and I am not as picky as this journalist.
I am an employed white male in my mid forties. 5'9; 175 lbs. Long hair. Never married. Have dog. Hate kids.
And I have been adderall-free for almost a year.
Interested? please send me a P.M. via this website!
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Whittering, you are only One Pill away from resuming your addiction. As recovering addicts, that is something we all have to accept. One Pill begins a cascade of events, thoughts, needs, and emotions that WILL ultimately result in a full blown relapse. There is no such thing as a minor relapse. It changes the way you think about things so internal justification for taking more pills is a lot easier to allow. Swallowing One Pill is your point of no return.
So what could you gain by taking a pill? What you could lose is the sober mindset needed to keep you from going back for more addies and resuming your addiction for another 2,3, or five years (or longer). The pill, just one, will create a tollerance-rebuilding process in every cell of your body and simply make you want to take more adderall - it is an insatiable need of your body and your mind and you could just decide the addiction is OK for several more years, especially since your husband likes his adderall too. But at some point in your life you will need to QUIT AGAIN because a long-term adderall addiction is simply unsustainable throughout most people's lifetime. Also, your kids deserve better than to have both of their parents strung out on adderall while they are growing up.
Regarding your stash, I say that it needs to be dealt with since you have now fucked with it and removed some pills with the intent to take them. You could always get a pill from your husband, right? But you have proven yourself an unreliable steward of your pill stash so they have to go, ASAP.
By fate and good fortune, you were granted an intervention today. In my opinion you were holding a loaded handgun to your head with your finger on the trigger, then somebody intervened. Don't waste that opportunity.
ps Don't worry about the fact that you are a bitch. That's who you are. And since you have not had any adderall since the first of the year it is somewhat justified. You can work on being a nice person next year and that will be a lot easier if you remain adderall-free.
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Jonny5:
I, too, really struggle with the use of the word addict or alcoholic by those who have quit using. Up until recently, (after one of my lame attempts to quit smoking) I would tell everybody that I am a smoker- - but I choose not to smoke. Well, WTF? How can one be a smoker if they do not smoke? How can they be an alcoholic or a drinker if they don't consume alcohol? I gotta agree with you on this one, Jonny5. I think if you are gonna call yourself an addict, then you better be actively pursuing your addiction.
I have never been to a meeting, but I think that AA or NA may use this approach with all of their members. We have all heard the classic introductions like "I'm Bob and I'm an alcoholic and I took my last drink 26 years ago". I think they do this to remind everybody who has ever been addicted that they are only one drink, pill, or cigarette away from resuming their addiction. And that is the absolute truth.
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To be fair, I need to provide the context of that "cult" statement I read: It was in response to somebody who had written a post that he was frustrated that adderall had quit working for him, and he was wondering if he should quit, even for just a couple of months. I'm not sure whether that makes the "cult" comment even funnier or somewhat disturbing.
Fully "medicalized"....never heard that term before but I like it. It makes me think of brainwashed zombies who are programmed to take their pills and always seek new pills for their "diseases". And then take more pills to counter the side effects of the first pills, and the "disorders" never really get cured.
While I am on this rant, another thing that active users and fresh quitters have in common is the lack of ownership for their addiction. "I was put on adderall" or "I was prescribed vivanse" or "I was diagnosed with severe blah blah and the doctor PUT me on......" It's like these people are following "doctors orders" like they are in the military or something.
Please, people, think for yourselves and make informed decisions. And take ownership of your habbits and addictions. I believe that acknowledging your personal responsibility (or lack of) and taking ownership of your addiction is the first step in quitting.
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This website (quittingadderall) was never mentioned by name in that forum. I think it was somebody grasping to hold on to their addiction despite their paranoia resulting from advanced amphetamine psyshosis. Visiting the addforums.com website is not only entertaining, it reminds me of where I was in that awful addiction and how easy it was to fail to see that adderall WAS the problem that CREATED my add symptoms. So I occasionally go to that web site to remind me how bad it was, and the quitting meth web site forums just to see how much worse it could have been. The german word "shocktenfroid", and I am sure I butchered its spelling, describes taking joy from other people's self-imposed missery and I get that every time I read the add forums.
I couldn't agree more with you that learning something about the science of addiction and brain chemistry has really helped me through the recovery process.
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Has anybody ventured out and explored other adderall or meth-related forums lately? I have book-marked another web site called the attention deficit hyperactivty disorder forums, or http://wwww.addforums.com/
It is a web site of the drug companies, by the drug companies, and for the drug companies and their customers. Each post features a drug advertisement. It is mostly a forum of people tweeting about tweaking and they are all so proud of their diagnoses and their medications. It is a busy place with thousands of daily visitors and lots of activity. I will never join it or post anything there but it is good entertainment. One guy even refered to those of us who advocate quitting adderall as a "cult".
The other web site worth checking out is a quitting meth web site & forum - just google quitting meth and see what comes up. You will find a dark place on the internet. Sometimes I go there just to remind myself that it could be a lot worse.
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At this late stage in the semester, straight D's and straight F's are about the same thing - you will need to re-take all of those classes. I hope you don't get booted from your school. The first time I read your post last night, I got a really good laugh when you were describing your brain and how smart you feel right now. Don't worry, your brilliance and mental sharpness will return IF you stayoff the adderall. But you will need lots of patience (it could take a year or longer) and you will have to learn some new study habits that you have never had to practice because you took the stimulant shortcut. Welcome to this forum and good luck to you, Wintermute.
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"...and not take it at all this summer?" WTF?? So if it is only for the summer is it really quitting?
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The root word of pharmaceutical is the greek work pharma. Directly translated it means "poison". Every one of those fucking drugs has some kind of toxic side effect while you're on 'em or comming off them. InRecovery, I hope your journey off the effexor will make you completely pharma-free. It is the best way to be.
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Cassie,
Are you sure your job workload has declined or does it just seem that way because you are no longer amped-up on adderall? In my case, my workload did not change one bit after quitting, but it sure got a lot easier to get more things done with way less effort when I was NOT strung out every morning because of dopamine depletion. Consider yourself lucky to have a not-very-demanding job in your early recovery period. My advice is to go with the slow flow until you get that first year of recovery under your belt, even if you feel like you need a new challenge now. If you have energy to burn, go get a fun part-time job for the summer - like mowing lawns or bartending or something you might even enjoy.
InRecovery: Congrats on taking that test. You have been working toward that goal ever since I met you here last summer. And good on you for trying again if you can get a better score. Never quit trying.
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It took me almost three months before I could even write my first post on this website. I wondered about this too because I thought that adderall made me a better writer. But when I compare things I wrote on adderall and things I wrote post-adderall, I cannot honestly tell any difference in the quality of the article. I was never very good at writing about myself before I started posting on these boards. But with seventy or so posts under my name on this site, well, I still struggle writing about myself, but the experience has helped me to become a better writer and I can see the progress by looking back at those first few posts when I joined this website late last summer.
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Reminds me of a conversation I had with a nurse in the nursing home where my mother was dying. We were discussing drugs and their side effects, and she said "there's a drug...for every drug." How many times have you seen two or three new drugs prescribed just to counteract the side effects of the first drug? I think it is bad medicine and bad pharma, but really good for the business of doctors and drug companies.
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Ha! Cassie that could be the plot for an entire episode of a comedy show like Seinfeld, Weeds or "Always sunny in philidelphia" . Really Funny!
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Sixty Minutes recently aired a segment (March 18) on people who are afflicted with a condition known as prosopagnosia or "face blindness" Those affected by this disorder have trouble recognizing and remembering people's faces. Like color blindness, face blindness has differing degrees of severity that can range from a minor annoyance to a significant disability (i.e.being unable to see the colors in a trafic signal light). About two percent of the population is afflicted with prosopagnosia. It can be caused by a brain injury or an illness (like a stroke) which has damaged the face recognition area in the brain. Or it can be congenital and very highly heritable. I am moderately affected by face blindness and I was born with it. It is embarrassing to disclose because one's inability to recognize familiar faces is commonly associated with disorders like dementia, amnesia, and Alzheimers Disease.
It came from my mother's side of the family. Whenever we were eating in a restaurant, Mom could never remember who our server was so she would ask me but I was clueless too. My brother once came to visit (unannounced) while I was working in the yard and I thought he was a salesman so I told him to just go and ring the doorbell. We later got a good laugh out of it and we learned that he too is affected by face blindness. Whenever I go with somebody to a large gathering, I have to remember their clothing, hair style, or hat color so I can find them later in case we get separated. Movies are hard to follow especially if they have several scenes and similar-looking people. Sports are not that entertaining whin the players all look alike wearing their team uniforms. If Face Book is an aptly-named website, then I will never have a reason to go there. I was once scolded by a school teacher for being racist because I told her they all looked alike to me. I was often told to pay more attention to the people whom I met and to simply try harder to remember what they looked like. Before I learned that face blindness was a brain disorder, I thought it was a personality shortcoming and that I didn't see people as important enough to remember who they were.
So how does one afflicted with prosopagnosia get along in a world full of people and faces? Sometimes I fake it and sometimes I don't get away with it. I smile and say hello to everybody who looks at me like I should know them. I have had many (short) conversations with people encountered out of context, leaving the conversation without a clue as to who they were. If the topic doesn't get too far away from the weather, I can bullshit my way through it. It can bug me for weeks or months afterword, and sometimes I eventually connect the name to the face but I am never 100% sure. If I see somebody where I am expecting to see them (in context), I might eventually learn their name and face as long as they are where I am expecting to find them. But what if I encounter them elsewhere? I simply avoid eye contact with strangers as much as possible, and if they do greet me by name and I don't know them, it rapidly becomes an uncomfortable encounter no matter how brief. I use things like hair styles, eyeglasses, beards and body weight to recognize people. Sometimes I can recognize them by their voice or clothing, the way they walk, or how tall they are, but not their facial features. If I hear or read someone's first and last name I will usually remember that name but it doesn't do me much good if I can't connect a face to the name.
Sometimes people believe they were not remembered as a person when somebody fails to recognize their face, causing them to feel offended. I have no idea how many opportunities or relationships this condition has cost me. I consider it to be a social disability for which there is no cure or treatment. Please wear your name tags at work, conventions, reunions and other gatherings because it may be the only way I know who you are or learn your name. The next time you feel like you have been "snubbed" because an acquaintance "couldn't give you the time of day" please consider that you may simply be unrecognized by somebody whose camera lacks a memory card when it comes to remembering faces.
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Whittering,
I am responding to your latest post here instead of there because I want to share your own wisdom with yourself and I can access those quotes better here.
12/25/11 "I was working fine without it for 15 years"
12/27/11 "I think back now and wish I'd stayed off it"
1/5/12 "now that's all I want is to be free of this damn drug" After describing your heart attack symptoms that sent you to the emergency room.
1/5/12 "I've made such a statement now about hating the drug that a relapse will fill me with guilt and shame".
1/8/12 "I know I won't ever go back on adderall. It's a done deal"
2/18/12 "I cannot tell you how wonderful it feels not to be a slave to that stupid little pill"
I can't make this stuff up - it's your own words and you will be saying all of these things all over again if you don't stay strong and give in to your addiction's inner voice. InRecovery's wisdom says this is your disease talking to you. Cassie's wisdom tells you that an amphetamine addiction is unsustainable. We are here for you and we would all feel really bad if you did indeed relapse.
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I am just completing day two of my cleanse. Yesterday was rough, and it reminded me of adderall withdrawls. I had a visious frontal headache from the caffeine withdrawls most of the day, and I slept a lot. Today was much better and I have had enough energy to do some house cleaning, laundry, and play with the dog. Headache is gone, and the "flu-like" symptoms of muscle and joint aches are gone too. My goal is to last the full ten days. I really haven't been too hungry except when I see a food advertisement either on TV or the internet. I never thought fast food would look so appetizing, but when you go without any food for two days, I guess anything looks good.
Day 3 The Hunger Dreams
Last night I had two dreams that reminded me a lot of my earlier quitting adderall dreams. In the first dream, I took a bite of food, realized I wasn't supposed to be eating food, and spit it out. I felt pride and no guilt. Later on, in the second hunger dream, I found myself eating a delicious breakfast with sausage, eggs, and pancakes. I had some really bad guilt feelings, quickly replaced with the thought of "fuck it, the damage is done so I might as well enjoy my breakfast". I woke up hungry, but glad it was just a dream.
Day 4 The Hunger Buzz
Today I got tied up at work and couldn't get to my lemonade in time. I experienced the most incredible euphoric buzz and lightheadedness after the hunger feelings subsided. I tried to keep it going by not consuming, but about five hours after my last lemonade I felt like I was going to pass out so I caved in and had another one.
Day 5 THIS SUCKS
I work in the food business and the smell and sight of food all day long is driving me crazy. I want to be done with this! The warm lemonade-maple syrup-red pepper drink tastes like shit and I almost have to hold my nose to gag it down. I can't do this for five more days. I will end my cleanse on Day 8.
Day 8 Done Cleansing
On Day 8, I ended my week-long cleanse. Started the day with fresh-squeezed orange juice and then made a fresh veggie stew, with a can of chicken added for good measure. The cleansing instructions suggested not eating meat and gradually getting your stomach used to solid food. But I was really fucking hungry so I ate the stew all day with no bad effects. One last note on the nutrition - I found the red pepper to be mildly addictive, and it took me about a weeek after the cleanse to finally quit putting ground red pepper on just about everything I ate.
Results: I felt great after cleansing for a week. I believe I had more energy during the cleansing process than I usually do. I lost about twelve pounds, but about half of that was water; and I have still managed to keep about five pounds from coming back, and this is three weeks later. I felt some kind of a mental victory, even if I didn't make it the full ten days, because I exercised the self-control needed to complete one full week without eating food. With that level of self-control, I worry a lot less about relapsing. This is a hard-core cleanse and I believe it is only needed once every one or two years if you are healthy. I hadn't cleansed since quitting adderall and cigarettes so I felt like I needed to detoxify, even if it was several months after quitting.
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Those fleeting moments of brilliance and wit are overshadowed by the longer periods of memory loss, stupidity and poor decisions while abusing adderall. After abusing at high dosages or for more than three days, I was mentally slow and stupid. I would just stare at things because I couldn't solve any problems or make decisions. I don't ever want to return to that state. My mind is the greatest asset I have and adderall was slowly robbing me of short term memory and general cognition. To be fair, adderall did enhance certain thoughts and ideas but at a great cost. My wit and wisdom have returned to pre-adderall levels, but my motivation is still trying to catch up.
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If something can't be proven with a clinical trial it isn't science-based. Gotta have that kind of proof to be believable. I assume that all the supps with a "B" rating simply have not had as many clinical trials as the "A" rated supps, but they are nevertheless proven to be effective, right? Thanks for posting this Cassie, it is good info.
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Hey InRecovery-
Those Ritalin ads were hillarious! That one from 1966 is the best!!! Reminds me of an adderallXR add I saw when I first started taking the shit about ten years ago. It went something like this:
It was a full page centerfold ad in a Sunday Parade newspaper magazine.
It featured an obviously-stimulated ten-year-old kid in his baseball clothes with his schoolbooks closed and stacked on the desk behind him, bat&mitt in hand and ready to go to baseball practice. At the top of the page in big block letters it read:
Already
Done with my
Homework
Dad!
How I quit Adderall
in Tell your story
Posted
ONE YEAR!
By the end of this week it will be exactly a year since I took my last adderall pill. One year is a significant marker for anything new or different in my life. Whenever I have taken a new job, I was always so relieved that I got through that first year - and still had the job. A year seems to be a proper adjustment time for grieving and adjusting to the loss of a friend, a pet, or a loved one. A new relationship that I am not sure about?...give it a year. Indeed, one year runs the full calander cycle of life and if I can make it for a year in a new endeavor, chances are really good it will mark lasting and hopefully permanant changes in lifstyle and behavior.
When I first started posting here about nine months ago, the first person to respond to me was somebody named sboo, and she was marking her first year off of adderall. She offered me encouragement by letting me know that it just keeps getting better with time in recovery, and she felt that her body had pretty-much been "rebuilt" in a year's time. Haven't heard from sboo since then but I really appreciated her responses and encouragement. I can say that I, too, feel re-built after a year free of adderall. My recovery entered its final phase in March, which was about nine months after I ceased taking the pills. InRecovery's recent post about PAWS was enlightening and I remember several times my PAWS reminded me I was still recovering from an addiction to a hard drug. Cassie's estimate of recovery time was spot on for me - about a month of recovery per year of adderall usage. Cassie's comments about recovery not being a linear process (due in part to PAWS?) are also very accurate, as I still have periods of extreme laziness and little motivation, but they are less and less often. I was kind of a lazy bastard before I ever got hooked on adderall so I do not expect the laziness and lack of production will ever totally go away, and I am just fine with that. In fact, I have tried to do absolutely nothing for the last three days and I have actually enjoyed it - it is simply who I am and I accept myself as is.
There are a couple more posts I wish to write before I fade away from this web site (like sboo and countless others). It's funny, but the stories and posts here don't interest me like they once did. In fact, the Internet in general is less interesting now than it was just a year ago. I am really looking forward to LBA (life beyond adderall). I have planned several new outdoor hobbies, projects, and activities for this summer!