Mindfully Deluded

Thank you quit-once, I think that's yet another great way to frame it. The cookie analogy really nails it for me since I do in fact love cookies, and the only way to prevent myself from inhaling a whole pack at once is to never buy them. It's been maybe 7 or 8 years since I've purchased them, now that I think about it. I'll enjoy one from time to time when people offer them to me, just like I'll have the occasional cigarette while drinking, but I'll never buy a pack of either because I'd just burn through them in a day. I am definitely *not* a person that nibbles on things, literally or metaphorically--it's all or nothing. At least when something is THAT available. I suspect that many other members also share this characteristic. Videogames, love, booze, junk food--it's all the same. Anything that feels good I have to seriously monitor myself around, because I've become accustomed to over-indulgence. So Adderall should be no less dangerous, and if anything, it's worse. Being honest with myself, I now know that my question was coming from a disingenuous place, and I thank you both for offering such poignant insights to help shed light on this. Best Regards, MD

Hi matchpoint88, Welcome to the forums. I think you're in good company here, so know that when I say this, I intend no condescension: "I have to say that your post made me chuckle to myself because it reminded me of myself a lot." Fellow member InRecovery said to me when I posted on a similar question not two weeks ago, and I can't help but feel the same way after reading your story. Let me ask you this: Do you feel that in asking your question, you are being completely honest with yourself? Put differently: Are you seeking truth, or do you already have a specific answer in mind? If you believe it's the former--that you're genuinely seeking truth in asking your question--then perhaps it's because you think the issue is not cut-and-dry. Perhaps you believe that, especially regarding Adderall, the all-or-nothing platitudes tossed around by recovering addicts scarcely service for the vicissitudes of life. "Can you quit with a planned relapse?" I think quit-once stated it pretty clearly: No, you cannot quit if you intend to return to the substance you're quitting. In that case, it would probably be more accurate to say that you're just taking a break. Of course, quitting is a process. It entails failure. Maybe... even demands it. But those who "succeed" are those who can recognize when they are failing, and then conduct an honest dialogue with themselves about it. When I asked my question in these forums, I was secretly hoping for an answer that would help further rationalize my addiction. Is that the case for you? I can't presume to know. What I do know is, you'll not find many on this site who would answer "Yes, you can quit with a planned relapse." If you're just... strong enough? Disciplined enough? Fed up enough? I fear that success cannot hinge on such mutable qualities. Can you be honest with yourself? Can you recognize when you stray from your principles, and set yourself on the right path again when you inevitably (but not intentionally) stray? Life will never present you with a convenient time to quit. That doesn't mean you can't be strategic about it, but recognize that excuses will forever flow readily. I know they do for me. At some point in your life, you may have to confront the possibility of being a complete fuck-up for a while. So I guess, if you choose not to quit now, do you know--as in, having thought about it on more than just a superficial level--that there will be a better time later? Do you have a concrete plan with a specific date in mind, or are you just hoping that life won't keep throwing an endless stream of (seemingly) urgent demands at you? Again, I can't presume to know. Maybe you're in a different place than me right now, maybe not. But if any of this resonates with you, perhaps you would get something out of InRecovery's responses to my post. They really made me think. Best Regards, MD

InRecovery, Thank you for your extremely thoughtful responses. I've been using the GTD system for a while now. Perhaps unsurprisingly, I first encountered it during an Adderall-fueled quest for greater productivity. I have since then found it immensely useful for managing my time both on and off the drug. Recently, however, I've started reading 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, and I have to say, it's changed the way I see GTD. More specifically, it shed some light on the sort of mindset GTD inadvertently encourages. This mindset turned out to be one of the main reasons why quitting Adderall has been so difficult--GTD is very task centered, and tends to prioritize urgent short-term tasks (productivity) over important long-term growth (productive capacity, if you want to call it that). I realized that I measure my day by how productive I've been, and that I measure that productivity by how many next actions I can check off of my to do list and how many items I can clear out of my inbox. Quitting Adderall obviously has an adverse effect on this productivity. This was unpleasant before, but now, the sharp decline in daily accomplishment is made quantifiable and concrete. And that inspires an even deeper sense of guilt and shame, because I now have a performance metric that tells me exactly how short of "perfect" I fall. Not inherently good or bad, but after quitting, there's still this residual Adderall-inspired mentality makes it hard for me to cope with the GTD paradigm. Does that make sense? I guess what I'm trying to say is, I associate GTD with many of the negative things I associate with Adderall. But at the end of the day it's just a tool, like Adderall is just a tool. How you decide apply it is as important as its prescribed function. I'm glad you've taken away positive things from it, and if it works for you I have no right to project my own experiences onto it. So for you, 7 Habits of Highly Effective People may only be a worthwhile read if you want an alternative perspective. It's late over here, and I'm wicked tired, so I cannot do your post justice by responding in kind just yet. But I really appreciate the time you took to write out that extensive response. Cheers, MD

InRecovery, That was easily the worst response imaginable. I clearly do not want to stop taking Adderall. So, it was probably also the best response I could've hoped for. I clearly do not want to stop taking Adderall. And I could not for the life of me admit that this was still a problem. I guess... that by the time you find yourself posting on a site called quittingadderall.com, you already know what the answer to your question is--even if you still won't readily admit to asking that question in the first place. "Do I have to quit?" I didn't want to confront that, to draw a line in the sand and then honor that promise to myself. So I asked a question that was very much longer and more convoluted. But really, what it boils down to is the same. Man. Half of me wants someone to just come out and say, "It's okay! Just take it for now. If you try really really really hard, you can make it work." The other half of me knows (and laments) that there is little truth in this. That half knows that the genuinely positive life changes I'm seeing are changes happening in spite of the Adderall. The last time I quit, it was while writing my Master's thesis. I thought, "Hey, there's always gonna be some pressing matter in your life--if you keep waiting for a good time to stop, you'll never escape this." You can probably guess how that turned out. Three weeks before the deadline I was back on my prescription, flouting sleep and personal hygiene and pounding away at my keyboard like a man possessed. Given the circumstances, I churned out a pretty good paper. I also gave myself a pretty unpleasant case of carpal tunnel. When I had decided to quit halfway through writing my thesis, I thought that I was in pretty good shape thanks to this site. I was ready to take my small daily victories where I could get them--to rejoice at having cooked myself dinner or taken out the garbage, for instance. I was also ready to not see many of the wonderful people I had gotten accustomed to seeing, people who I felt validated me as worthwhile and special (obviously quite a problematic dynamic). I was even ready to be be a lot less engaged in my creative passions, as much as this killed me to concede. What I was not ready for, however, was the intensely debilitating sense of guilt and self-loathing that came with staying in bed for weeks at a time. Especially when just a few months prior, I was juggling school/work/passions/socializing/working out 5 times a week/feeling damn-near invincible. The cracks were there, though, if only I had bothered to look. Any tips, then, on not taking a complete nosedive in terms of personal commitments? What did you find helped or hindered you when you finally resolved to quit? And what does life look like for you now? I'm especially curious about your day-to-day. Mine became such a complete goddamned mess that I couldn't even begin pick out where to make improvements. Incidentally, I'd gladly switch to coffee but it doesn't play nice with my digestive system. To put it mildly. Cheers, MD

Hi there everyone, I've been checking out this website for a while now, and I wanted to know if anyone else has gone through this experience: 1.) First, had the revelation that Adderall is ruining their life (in however big or small a way). 2.) Then, spent a significant period of time off of the drug (say, enough time to weather the worst of the physical and psychological withdrawal). 3.) Finally, after spending a huge amount of time being unproductive, used the advice from this website in conjunction with Adderall to try and start forming positive life habits (that will eventually supplant Adderall use). Just to be clear: I'm definitely not advocating that people do this. It's obviously easy to fall back into that terrible cycle of abuse and self delusion. And really, while I've personally had some measure of success with the process above, my final results are still pending. I am curious however if people think it's possible to use Adderall mindfully. Qualitatively, I don't see it as being that different from coffee. For sure, it's more effective, and the potential for abuse is higher, but there's nothing inherently bad about it. Of course, you could make a similar argument for heroin, with the same attendant criticism: while on paper there's nothing wrong with "responsible" heroin use, few know of any actual people that could use heroin responsibly. So it's probably not that simple. The reason I ask is because I, like most of you, have experienced firsthand the ugliness of this drug; yet, while on Adderall, I've also experienced some of the most profound and eye-opening moments of clarity in my entire life. Is it foolish to think that one could direct that Adderall-fueled clarity towards creating a life without Adderall? It seems to me that the Adderall problem, or at least a big chunk of it, stems from a lack of self-awareness. On Adderall, people tend to have this hurry-hurry attitude: this mentality that screams, "I'm a freakin' shark man, if I stop moving I die!" While thus altered, we don't necessarily reflect on why we're pushing ourselves so hard, or on what we're pushing ourselves toward--we just crave the validation of being productive, so we happily pop a pill to fall into that tunnel-visioned work-fugue whenever the opportunity presents itself. But let's say you know the major risks. And let's say you know that you have to create supportive life-habits to eventually replace your magic pill--habits like exercising, producing at less-than-perfect quality, or grinding out projects when you really, really don't feel like it. Is it possible that the best way to get off of Adderall is to create that kind of scaffolding while still on Adderall? Those results don't suddenly evaporate when you stop taking your medication--if you create a workout habit, for example, your strength and stamina stay with you even once you're off the drug. And even on an hour-to-hour basis, the momentum Adderall gives you can carry through past the point of its felt effects. While on my hiatus from Adderall, I tried to start doing yoga in the morning as a way to prep me for the day ahead. On the days that I could bear it, it worked wonderfully--but those days were few and far between. After getting back on Adderall, I started doing yoga a lot more consistently. More importantly, I found that as long as I got my morning yoga in, it didn't really matter if I continued taking Adderall the rest of the day. Sure, my productivity wasn't going to be at its peak level, but I no longer minded; I now found it deeply satisfying (and edifying) to push through my daily grind using just the post-yoga momentum, even if it did require a little chemical nudge to get started. So what do you guys think? Am I being deluded here in thinking that a crutch can be good sometimes? Does anyone have any similar experiences to share, and perhaps some advice or words of caution? Cheers, MD p.s. I love writing. It's one of my favorite activities, so writing this while coming down off Adderall was a frustrating yet incredibly rewarding experience. Admittedly it's a rambling mess, but part of my process right now involves trying to do as much frustrating "work" as possible off the drug--and to really not fuss about it. In that regard, Mike's most recent article helped a ton. I highly recommend it to anyone in the process of quitting.