HELP!

[Confused84]

(Note: I already posted this under the "How to quit Adderall" section as "JP48" )

First I’d like to thank Mike for the forum. I don’t know where to begin … I’m at a point where I don’t know what the hell I’m going to do … I’m going to just unload, so bear with me … I’ve been taking Adderall for ADD since I was 14 years old—between 30 and 40 milligrams a day … Before that I was taking Ritalin—which didn’t seem to do much of anything for me … I’m now 29 years old and have therefore been taking Adderall for about 15 years, now! When I first started taking it things changed subtly … For the first time I was able to do homework and get good grades … At the same time I began to become socially and emotionally withdrawn since I was spending so much time doing homework—but I didn’t think too much about it; I figured that this was simply what I had to do in order to obtain good grades … It didn’t help that I suddenly had this compulsion to make sure that every assignment I turned in was done perfectly … After a time my immediate family began to notice that I wasn’t socializing outside of my time at school … I started becoming interested in things that I’d never been particularly interested in before, such as physics, astronomy, hardcore classical music, literature … I started experimenting with developing certain abilities—such as playing the piano, drawing and painting, writing and philosophy, geometry … etc. After a while all of these activities began to completely dominate my life … Some people noticed this sudden display of intellectual ability—including family members—and began thinking that I was a genius … Many relatives in my family have significantly higher than normal IQ scores—particularly my older brother and my father, both of which have IQs in the 150 range … After a time I started believing that the Adderall must be helping me to tap into an inherited intellectual ability that I didn’t realize I had … people straight up told me that they thought I must be a genius and I began to believe them …

One thing I noticed almost immediately after beginning to take Adderall was that I suddenly had no problems remembering to take it in the morning or afternoon (when I was taking Ritalin I often forgot dosages but this was no big deal for me) … It wasn’t until a few years after having been on the Adderall that I missed my first dosage … It was like a complete frontal lobotomy … I couldn’t function …

Anyway, despite whatever display of creative or intellectual ability I’d suddenly tapped into, my life has gone absolutely NOWHERE ever since … In high school I ended up switching to a home school program and graduated from there because I was having so much anxiety about being around other people … I fell in love with someone who I now know has Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)—which translated into an unhealthy, dead-end relationship that lasted for about 7 years and went absolutely nowhere; it ended badly and ever since I’ve had post-traumatic stress symptoms as a result; I’ve developed major issues with trust and haven’t been in a serious relationship since then … I dropped out of college—twice … I got stuck working at a sandwich shop for about six years, since it was too difficult for me to deal with trying to find another job on my own; I was paid damn-near minimum wage; I worked 11 or 12 hour days; I worked between 6 and 7 days a week … This was hell for me, partly because I had to deal directly with strangers, and partly because I had absolutely no more energy left to do anything by the time the day ended or on any days off I might’ve had … My social anxiety only got worse as time went on and I was eventually diagnosed as having Avoidant Personality Disorder (AvPD), which can be somewhat complicated, but to simplify, is like an extreme form of social anxiety …

After the relationship I was in fell apart I became completely numb to the world … the day after the relationship ended, at work I suddenly fainted and hit the back of my head on a refrigerator door handle—I’ve had a number of instances in which I’ve become dizzy and fainted ever since … I began to get extremely angry inside; instead of taking it out on the people around me, though, I developed this habit of—the only way I can describe it is to call it self-conscious eye-contact—where I either can’t look people in the eye correctly or feel like I’m staring people down when I do look at them or something … Some people have even commented to me about it … needless to say this has intensified my social anxiety dramatically … At work the fight or flight was on constant overdrive and I eventually became completely numb and disassociated … I felt like the people I worked with were secretly plotting against me, to get me fired or to make things so miserable for me that I would quit … I began to let people walk all over me … I started to neglect my appearance … I began to let my room get messy all the time … I stopped paying the rent on time … I neglected to take care of my car—which suddenly blew up on me while I was driving on the freeway one night … I ate whatever I wanted … I started drinking constantly … I began chain-smoking cigarettes constantly … I started experiencing what I only realized later were manic episodes during the summer—a type of bipolar disorder … I became obsessed with classical music and decided that I wanted to become a music composer, or to do something with music … and I was completely alone through all of this … I couldn’t allow myself to trust anyone and I basically would just come home every day and lock myself in my room … In my room I would just withdrawal into my Adderall fantasy world.

About 3 years ago I finally broke down and called my Mom … I told her about all the problems I was having and she told me to move in with her until I get everything straightened out … She’s physically disabled so it worked out okay since I’m able to help take care of her … This was 3 years ago though and I’m still living there with her! A 29 year old man completely dependent on his mom! The plan after moving in was to get off the Adderall by switching back to Methylphenidate and then go from there [i knew A) that when I had been taking Methylphenidate before that it hadn’t really caused me any problems compared to the Adderall and that I hadn’t had any issues with dependence while taking it—despite having been on it for about two years straight] … I have Kaiser and right from the beginning I had to fight the psychiatrist about switching from Adderall to Methylphenidate … After he finally complied with my request I began taking less Adderall along with increasing dosages of methylphenidate (Concerta XR) in compensation—I did this in 5 milligram increments, I think … The idea of course is to eventually replace the Adderall with Concerta … What I didn’t realize then was that Methylphenidate is only about half as potent as Adderall … Apparently the psychiatrist either A) failed to realize that this was the case (which figures) or that the psychiatrist didn’t really care that this was the case (which also figures) since the amount of Concerta he was prescribing was something like 38 milligrams—roughly the same amount of Adderall I was taking … Either way, by the time I had switched completely over from Adderall to Concerta—though I could tell that it was doing something for me—I was still basically a guy walking around like he had had a lobotomy … When I wrote the psychiatrist with my complaints and told him that I wanted to try taking a higher dosage of Concerta he sent me a nasty email telling me that I’d better not try taking extra Concerta and that I was already prescribed what he considered to be the maximum dosage and basically that I’d better just shut up and deal with it … Eventually I caved in a wrote him saying that I was going to be attending school again, soon (which was true) and that I wanted to switch back over to Adderall … I gave him a bunch of BS about how I thought Adderall would be the perfect option for me if I were going to be attending school … He was only too happy to oblige—I didn’t even have to get an appointment or even see him this time—he simply had me drop off the remaining Concerta pills at his office and left the Adderall triplicate for one of the secretaries to give to me when I showed up … Meanwhile I suppose he was out golfing or something—I don’t know … Anyway, there I was taking Adderall again … I felt great! Here I am about a year and a half later—still taking Adderall but not feeling so great … Anyway that’s my story for now … There’s a couple things on my plate right now … I’m attending a library certificate program at school—but I’ve decided that I don’t really want to pursue that field—especially if I’m eventually going to be getting off Adderall … I’ve always loved driving and figure that that is a job that I could do that would cause me little—if any distress … So what I figured I’d do is I’ll finish getting my certificate from school then attend a commercial truck driving school to obtain my CDLA and then get a job as a long-haul or medium range commercial truck driver—they pay considerably well, include benefits, and demand for drivers is on the increase … After I learn the job thoroughly enough I’ll commit to switching back over to (an appropriate dosage of) methylphenidate …

What do you guys think?

Sorry for telling you my whole life story and for such a long post, but I just had to get it all out there … Also, I’ve never had a problem with abusing the Adderall and I’ve always just taken it as prescribed … Any comments or advice is highly welcome … Thanks y’all

[Motivation_Follows_Action]

That's a lot of life you crammed in there, Confused84. Many lifetimes in just a few years. A few things that strike me as familiar:

1) The eye contact thing. I used to have that on adderall; when people met my eye contact even just walking down the street it was like they were wanting to rob my soul or something. I have always had a bit of social anxiety but on adderall I would dread even going down out to get coffee because I felt like everyone was always looking at me, looking at me. Yep, that was the adderall.

2) Feeling numb to the world. The horrible solipsism that comes with extended adderall use is so all-consuming that you forget life could ever be anything meaningful or enjoyable. I am still getting over this sometimes I'm afraid. And of course the more you wall yourself off from the world doing mindless tasks that seem endlessly important for hours at a time, the more you have no idea whether life is in fact awful or nice, because you're not really experiencing it.

It sounds like you really want to get off adderall, and that you are smart enough to realize you're addicted (and you have found this site after all); so what is your plan to come off it? By the way, I read that lorry drivers are some of the worst abusers of amphetamines out there. All those long drives....

[olivia115]

I'm curently in school for a second bachelors degree and I quit using adderall cold turkey about halfway through my program. It's been about 7 months now and my true self is finally starting to resurface. One thing I wish I had done differently was quit adderall sooner! When I think back to the beginning of school last year it's all a blur. Adderall had changed my brain and I was no longer thinking effectively or efficiently. I could memorize a ton of stuff overnight but I remember none of it now. I thought it was helping me, but in hindsight it was actually handicapping me. I wish I had been able to quit before school started so I wouldn't have wasted so much time tweaking out on adderall and I could have actually felt like I was going through the learning process. My problem was I had been on adderall for so long that I had forgotten what it felt like to self-motivate and put in effort into thing...and when I was starting school the thought of having to re-learn how to do that was terrifying! So I just prolonged the inevitable until it got to be too much.

If you're able to quit and take some time off before you start school, I think that would be ideal. Not only to deal with withdrawals but also so you can have a clear mind to make this type of decision. You said that taking adderall brought out all of these new interests that sort of took over. I can identify with that too. I read ALL of Atlas Shrugged in less than 2 weeks once, and don't get me wrong, it's my favorite book, but its mammoth! (i mean, the author was taking dexedrine while she wrote it!) Perhaps when you stop taking adderall these interests might subside and perhaps your true self will re-emerge and you might discover something new you're interested in that you don't need to be stimulated in order to enjoy.

[Confused84]

Hi M_F_A … Thanks for responding to my post so quickly! Sorry for the life story ... I know that I can't blame EVERYTHING on the Adderall but it all seems to tie in together ...

I know about how common amphetamine abuse is for commercial drivers … I don’t THINK I’d have a problem refusing Adderall (or some other form of amphetamine) if someone offered it to me—having recovered sufficiently enough first (though I’m not really sure of anything anymore) … If, while still taking it someone offered me some of theirs, I know I’d have no problem refusing (I HATE taking more than prescribed! I already feel tweaked out enough as it is!)

Before I explain my current situation and plan, let me say something about my past experience with Methylphenidate (Ritalin) … For me, when I was taking Ritalin in Middle School, it was NOT the same experience at all as taking Adderall—not even close! … By this I mean that—while taking Ritalin I never experienced euphoria, had a relatively large and stable group of friends (although they weren’t the best crowd to hang out with), didn't seem to feel any more anxious than I naturally would normally be (or not to any noticeable degree), if I forgot or skipped a dose, I had absolutely NO withdrawal symptoms—other than being a little more hyperactive, my personality was never affected by it, and I still felt like me (the me I was before taking anything ) … Despite all of this, it still did SOMETHING ...

Another thing about methylphenidate that I read recently... (According to wikipedia) Methylphenidate “may … exert a neuroprotective action against the neurotoxic effects of Parkinson's disease and methamphetamine abuse†… Since amphetamines such as Adderall have recently been suggested to increase the risk of developing Parkinson’s disease in later life, taking methylphenidate in substitution would at least offer that possible aspect to it (I’ve been terrified of Parkinson’s disease ever since I started worrying about my Adderall use years and years ago) … I checked the source of the comment and it appears to be legitimate (here's the link if you're interested in checking it out http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2701286/).

As far as my current situation goes, my plan is to:

A) finish my library program certificate—since I only have three classes left before I’m done

go to professional truck-driving school and receive my class A CDL (which only takes about

four weeks, if I do it full time)

C) get a job as a truck driver for whatever company

D) get a good year or so of driving under my belt (still on Adderall at this point)

E) Since I’m super chicken, after having established enough on-the-road driving experience (from

what I understand pretty much any [trucking] company will hire you if you’re licensed and

have at least one year of on-the-road driving experience on your record … Also I’d want to get

comfortable enough with handling the job before I commit to abstaining) I’ll commit to switching

over to Methylphenidate and go from there (again, I've never had problems before with quitting

Methylphenidate—but we’ll see)

F) If the Methylphenidate ends up causing me the same problems as the Adderall has—though

I don’t think it will—or ANY major problems, I could go either of two ways; I

could:

I. Totally just give up with trying to treat ADD and long-term rebound symptoms from

Stimulants—entirely quitting ADHD or antidepressant medications altogether …

or

II. possibly try switching over to Effexor or Prestiq—since I’ve heard so many good things about

using either of them to help quit (of course I have concerns about these as well)

The point is for me to eventually get off of the Adderall—in whatever way that I can—since that’s the only medication that’s ever given me any real problems whatsoever … I don’t like the idea of taking medications at all, but if one can help me to get off of Adderall (to date I’ve never heard of anything NEARLY as radically life-altering or personality-altering—at least not in the same way or to the same degree—as amphetamine, methamphetamine, or other substituted amphetamines … I’ve heard people on this site who were former long-term heroin addicts who now were chronically addicted to Adderall comment on how Adderall was by far the worst drug they’d ever had to face abstaining from) and into life again, then I think it’s worth it.

Sorry for such a long post again … and for the tangent-type writing, the parenthesis and dashes and everything … I’m just trying to be as clear about my situation as I can be in case someone wants to respond … I hope my writing makes sense. Can’t tell you how much I appreciate hearing from someone that actually understands what I might be going through! … Take care for now.

[Confused84]

Olivia,

Thanks for your post as well ... I definitely admire your courage and strength--keep going! From what you wrote it definitely sounds like your headed in the right direction ...

I'd like to just get off of medications alltogether but I've been on adderall now for over half my life (15 years)! As I write this I'm not familiar with your story yet and am not sure what your experience with amphetamine has been, or how long you were taking it ... but I can hardly remember what it was like before I ever started taking it ... Reading, writing, drawing, calculating something, using the internet, doing anything for schoolwork ... driving, seeing women, getting and keeping a job ... etc.--Everything I've learned and have come to know as a teenager and later on as an adult has been experienced through this medication ...

To make matters more complicated I've always had serious issues with self-confidence, self-conciousness, motivation, energy, feeling adaquate enough, following what people are saying verbally ... etc. Before I started taking Adderall I used to get into trouble a lot for my impulsive behaviour, forgetfullness, and absentmindedness ... I agree that all these problems should ideally be dealt with naturally but I also don't want to spend God knows how long going through withdrawals, re-learning how to live life, and eventually end up making a catastrophic, life-altering mistake because of my inability to think clearly ... It seems like by the time I'd actually get comfortable again with myself, my life, and the direction I'm headed in that I'll damn near be an old man ... I don't know ... I think mike said something like 'for as long as you've been on Adderall for, it'll take roughly half as long for you to feel normal again after quitting--I believe it, too ... Anyway, that's the way that I feel at the moment ... I will say, however, that I'm not entirely against the idea of going onto the methylphenidate after I've completed the work for my certificate--this should only be until the end of the fall semester ... Anyway, take care for now ...

[Confused84]

... My "B)s" keep turning into ...