Brain Damage

[skepticxl]

As a 15 year old in high school, my laziness and depression had gotten the best of me, and, having experienced the amphetamine high with all of its euphoria and motivation before by taking a 70mg Vyvanse by mistake, I decided to talk to my parents about whether or not I had ADD. They were surprisingly receptive to the idea, and within a month I had a prescription for 20mg Adderall IR per day, 2-10mgs throughout the day. At the time I was already skinny, being a male at 5'6" weighing only 115 pounds. Over the course of my sophomore year in high school, I was completely emaciated; I had lost 10 pounds. I started smoking marijuana frequently, and for a time, the legal "incense/spice/k2 (it has various names)", the latter I regret immensely. My drug use was heavy, most notably marijuana, incense, alcohol, and amphetamines.

I would never take my prescription as written, and the doctor for some reason encouraged my taking it "only when I needed it". I've come to find out that intermittent use of amphetamines leads to increased neurotoxicity, as your body can never fully get used to it. Though the doctor had no idea about my dosing. I would sometimes get 3 hours of sleep, thinking "doesn't matter, I have adderall", and take up to 60mg throughout the day, eat nothing, barely sleep again, and have to do it again. But, I never ran out out my prescription early, due to painstakingly rationing near the end of the month.

So, to the point. I am now a junior, no longer prescribed Adderall, though I do "tweak" about once a week when I have a lot of work on friends' modest dosed Vyvanse. I have fortunately gained a lot of weight, but I have noticed a severe mental decline. I once prided myself on being extremely smart in comparison to my peers, and now that has tapered. I have less motivation than before I started adderall (due to low dopamine levels no doubt), but that isn't what concerns me.

I think my overall intellect has decreased. My practice SAT score freshman year, without "cheating" with adderall, scaled for a 1900 SAT. My practice SAT in the fall of my sophomore year, on adderall, was 2030. In the Spring of my sophomore year, after nearly hitting rock bottom from the drug, I took the SAT (on adderall) and made a 1910. I took the practice SAT again this year, after two months of being clean, "cheating" with my friend's vyvanse, and fear that I may have scored lower than my freshman year.

There's an obvious disparity between my scores, exacerbated because I have obviously regressed in intelligence over time. I've researched, and there's not much information on amphetamine neurotoxicity in the form of intelligence loss. The majority of it seems to be centered around obvious dopamine depletion and serotonin irregularities.

So, after reading my story, have any of you also experienced similar mental symptoms, where you believe that you are mentally less capable than you were before you started adderall?

[Greg]

Yes, for sure. Too much adderall causes paranoia , than more sever paranoia...eventually hearing voices and paychosis...and so much other crap I can't even begin..the more you take, the longer period you take it...it gets worse and worse...

Then when you recover u have to deal with PAWS which I am dealing with now and it's a total bitch...it takes a while for the chemicals in your brain to repair itself..

[skepticxl]

Well I never experienced amphetamine psychosis, my doses simply weren't high enough for that. I wasn't really awake long enough to slip into psychosis either. My longest binge, if you can call it that, was 36 hours with 80mg. Brain injury from short term psychosis isn't really what I'm worried about; it's just so obvious that I have lost intelligence from my use.

The most I've been able to find is that it increases oxygen levels, or something relating to that, to the point of toxicity to the brain, but again, the study mostly only pointed to dopamine and serotonin levels, not intelligence. Purely anecdotal evidence is all I can really ask for.

[Greg]

The minute u begin to rely on adderall aka artificial dopamine to get stuff done instead of yourself is when the mental decline begins..

[quit-once]

Hey Skeptic-

It is my understanding that adderall is not neurotoxic, while it's sinister sister methamphetamine IS neurotoxic (go figure- anything made from drano and battery acid can't be good for ya). I have not researched it, however. You have already answered your own question by stating that you still love to party with the V-pills weekly right after you said that intermittent use of adderall is a neurotoxic behavior. Again, these are your words and I don't know if that is indeed a fact that intermitent amphetime use is any worse than daily usage. I did it for at least five years just on the weekends...and my cognition on the non-adderall days slowly got worse and worse unitl I became a daily user. My cognitive abilities continued to decline until I finally quit.

I still have bad memory days or times when I just can't recall words or names I should know, or remember certain events or activities or conversations.....even passwords. Sometimes I don't do too well on a keyboard and I make lots of errors. My memory and cognition was better ten years ago than it is now, and I have been adderall-free for about a year and a half. Is my lower level of mental function due to the adderall use or is it a normal age-related decline? After all, I am pushing 50... It really does not matter because I am doing what I can to prevent further mental decline. I will say that I am functioning at a much, much higher level than when I abused adderall.

I believe one of the medically-recognized side effects of long term amphetamine abuse is memory loss...but is that permanent?

Another horrible disease that can come from abusing adderall is parkinsons disease. Remember Adolph Hitler's later film footage? Some of my recurring muscle twitches scared the hell outa me but they mostly went away after quitting.

FISH OIL is the cure for impaired cognition and poor memory. I can notice the beneficial effects of just one good dose of fish oil for several days after I take it. I really like the GNC brand triple strength fish oil capsules.

[Defunct]

http://thedetoxforum.yuku.com/topic/878/Decent-info-on-PAWS#.ULfRKrQhcWk

[skepticxl]

Update:

 

I'd like to come back and say that I think I was being a bit of a hypochondriac when I thought that amphetamines caused neurotoxicity. It's true that they do, amphetamines and alcohol are generally regarded as the two drugs that can legitimately cause long term brain damage, but I think that I underestimated my brain's ability to bounce back.  I made over a 2200 on the SAT since my original post, albeit it was taken on adderall, and I'm now applying to colleges.

 

(Note: Obviously one's SAT score doesn't equal their intelligence, as it's nothing like an IQ test.  I actually tested very low for my IQ, it was around 100. And, while 100 is the average, I'd always been told I was extremely smart, so it was a hit to my ego.  Though that might flawed, considering I was trying to fail an attention deficit test simultaneously.  Despite all of that, the improvement in SAT score is the only objective criteria from which I can base any sort of neurological damage, so I'm using it.)

 

The fact that I still had to take it on adderall is disappointing. I feel like I cheated. I took it then because I felt as if I would get bored taking a 5 hour test without a stimulant, and I think that's a problem for all of us.  It didn't make me smarter, but the fact remains that I would have scored lower because of boredom from the test, boredom from sitting, boredom from thinking.  I think that's a problem for all of us, that we need to get through, and I'm still working on.  We're afraid of being bored, and this drug, through all of its very high ups and very low downs has alleviated some of the monotony of doing things that other people seem better able to cope with. But, my use is significantly down; I don't need it to find the motivation to go to school anymore. I don't need it to get out of bed.  I don't need it to feel alive. My grades are exactly the same as they were when I was addicted to adderall (if you think about your actual productive time on the drug, it's probably fairly similar to your productive time off of it).

 

I came here with this update because I know that a lot of people are scared of quitting, and may be exactly like I was, someone who thought they'd done permanent damage.  You haven't.  You'll be just as smart as you were before; your personality hasn't suffered.  If anything, you'll be more vibrant and fun to be around than you were on it, or even during the first few highs when it made you a chatterbox.  If you're like I was, you might feel as if you've done so much damage that even if you were to quit, you'd never be the same as you were before you began.  This might lead you to think you have to continue your use. That's not a reason.

 

Nobody has made amphetamines a permanent, necessary crutch from their use.