Rock Bottom

[John]

Hello Everyone,

I guess there really aren't a lot of people on this board and I actually kind of like that. Exclusivity. After reading the many different articles on this website I am overwhelmed with how close this hits home to me. Especially right now. A little background and I will make it brief. I was diagnosed with mild ADD in 1996, since then I have been on one stimulant or another except for a four year period where I had enough of being a slave to the pill. For the vast majority the years spanning 1996 to present I have been on Adderall. I tried Vyvanse, Dexedrine, Ritalin etc. (they are all addictive but I always ended up coming back to Adderall)

After getting a new job that was extremely focused on multitasking and details after details I went back on Adderall at a dosage of 40mg per day. I already knew it was going to be a slippery slope and almost ruined my college career being perpetually "cracked out", I gave the drug up for four years so I KNOW I "Can do it," however, the jobs I had during that 4 year span did not require a lot of effort, at least not compared to the last one. After slowly re-addicting to Adderall over the last year or so, I have lost my job and the woman I have been with for nearly 4 years. I was saving and planned on asking her to marry me by the end of this year. I guess I kid myself and try and take the mentality "this time will be different," and it never seems to be the case. I was so distraught over the complete "cut-off" type of break up that I resigned from my job. I am at a point now where I am right on the border of considering re-hab. I'd like to be able to utilize this forum and website to hopefully not do that though.

My last adderall pill was yesterday and I had stayed up for about 2 days. I have to end this cycle. I will ruin another job and another relationship down the line if I continue this crap. It will be the most difficult undertaking I have faced in the 28 years on this planet. The script has been cancelled, and drug dealers numbers erased from EVERYWHERE, and my number changed so I don't get the weekly special updates. Yea...so I was going through my legitimate prescription and using an additional source because my mother decided to addict to it and put me in that position. I actually gave her my pills to hold on to and dole out to me because I felt that addiction creeping up again, instead she does dole them out but takes mine as well, thereby forcing us to seek another means of getting the "devil" drug. Anyways, its in the past...right now I have to focus on detoxing, getting healthy, and getting another job...a new girl is not even in the cards until I have my shit together. Anyway...I know most of this was a rant but here I am!

Oh and I forgot to mention something that I haven't seen too much of on this site. One of the most difficult reasons I find it SO TOUGH to quit is the unbelievable/insatiable sexual urges I get on Adderall. They overtake any other urge in my body and I find myself (before being a freak with my ex-gf) and now watching hours and hours of pornography. I crave it! and its awful! I have deleted everything today! I am being very honest here, maybe too frank indeed, but my appetite for sex while on Adderall (I guess while in a manic state) is unearthly and the eventual prolonged orgasm is absolutely amazing...I hear this is often the case with meth which I have never tried. I should mention I am not a recreational drug user and barely drink at all, I do smoke cigarettes like a champ while on the Adderall though. I don't smoke weed, do coke, or take anything else that could screw up my upcoming detox!

I am hoping some people on this board can give me some insight on what to avoid and what to utilize to make this grueling cold turkey process any better. Also, I am on Wellbutrin currently and have been for the last couple of years, I have missed dosages though while on the Adderall, I am taking it as prescribed NOW though to mitigate any major depression associated with the Adderall withdrawal.

Thanks!

John

[Mike]

Hi John!

You have a powerful confirmation that you can do this in those 4 years you stayed off it. Not because you managed to make it through, but because you managed to make it through and actually be pretty happy during those 4 years. I've heard lots of stories about relationships ending over Adderall. It either goes one of two ways: The relationship ends when you quit, or the relationship ends when you start back up again.

As hard as this may be to hear, you are one of the lucky ones. The fact that your ended when you went back on Adderall means that she loved the real you, and that the real you was competent enough to secure a relationship for 4 years almost to the marriage threshold. Those are very positive indicators for what you are capable of without Adderall.

When it comes to the harder job that drove you back to Adderall, that's understandable. I would start spouting advice about how to deal with that, but since you already quit it's not an issue.

My question for you now is: How are you going to approach things differently this time, work-wise? Are you going to shoot for a job you can better handle without the pills? Are you going to shoot for a job with the same level of difficulty and try to build up your willpower so that it becomes strong enough to handle it? Either path is possible.

But decide in advance what you're going to do. Where you get into trouble is when you start going hyper-ambivalent about what to do, while you're committed to one. Easier to set your mind going into the battle, so you can start to prep your brain and heart for the nature of the war ahead. Now you've got a chance to do that.

As for the porn: Pornography addiction is a very common side-effect of amphetamine use, from what I understand. Dr. Drew even talks about that links sometimes.

I think the good news about your porn problem is that porn is a very binary boundary. Either you allow your brain (and your mouse pointer) to go in "that" direction, or you don't. And once you stop it's easy to stay away. Your brain thinks porn is gross. It can come up with plenty of reasons why it's probably not healthy for your psyche to look at it. And then your dick chimes in and all bets are off. The more you ignore your sex drive for a little bit, the more your brain takes control, and the easier it is to let the brain have its say on decisions like porn.

So whereas a drug addiction may take weeks or months to break, most porn addictions can be broken pretty easily. Go a full week without porn, and your boundary will be pretty strong already.

And then you should just focus on being busy with things you care about. When it comes to porn, there's a lot of truth to the saying "idle hands are the devil's plaything". Fill up your day.

Plus quitting Adderall will very much help you avoid being so obsessive about porn and spending way too much time in what I've heard called "the porn trance" (where the addict spends 5 hours picking the right scene, and 3 minutes...using it).

This might be interesting to you: True Porn Clerk Stories It used to be available free online, which is how I stumbled onto it. Very interesting read. You learn all about all the porn addicts that come into the shops. For your purposes, it will help you externalize by seeing what porn addiction looks like from the outside.

Anyhow, good luck and hope that helps!

And yeah, don't worry about this girl thing just yet. Get you shit straight first. And even better, get happy again.

[Joanne]

I think y'all are right: the hyper-sexual effect is amphetamine in action. I've heard this from people who were cocaine addicts too, especially the porn obsession. There's something very compulsive and joyless about that kind of sexual drive though, I think. It doesn't exactly make women want to stick around and have a meaningful relationship. The "real you" may not be quite as "athletic", but probably one hell of a nicer guy!

John, if you don't mind saying: has your mom realized that she has a problem with Adderall? Or does she think she's found the Wonder Drug for whatever ails her? Just asking ... I am (ahem) probably about her age, and unlike many who got the drug from a doctor for ADHD, I got it for depression and fatigue. I have been on & off it for the past ten years, and I'm starting to realize the older I get, the less well I tolerate it ... and the harder it is to kick. I hope she'll maybe take a look at this board sometime, or reach out for help some other way. Best of luck to you both!

PS: I recently dug up a book from the early 70's, which described "speed freaks" engaging in all manner of meaningless compulsive activities for hours: stringing beads, taking apart stereos, painting little patterns all over their apartment walls. A Swedish doctor coined the word "punding" to describe this. I almost fell over laughing. Now that we're blessed with the Internet, it is possible to "Pund" for hours without anyone even knowing it! And I bet Adderallics have logged billions of hours. Whether shopping for the perfect porn video, or the perfect laptop, or chasing down obscure factoids we've just got to know... oh dear. The more things change the more they stay the same.

[John]

Hi Mike & Joanne, I have read both of your comments and am headed on a drive home from a vacation spot. When I get back tomorrow I want to correspond regarding your very thoughtful replies. Thank you.

[John]

Hi John!

You have a powerful confirmation that you can do this in those 4 years you stayed off it. Not because you managed to make it through, but because you managed to make it through and actually be pretty happy during those 4 years. I've heard lots of stories about relationships ending over Adderall. It either goes one of two ways: The relationship ends when you quit, or the relationship ends when you start back up again.

As hard as this may be to hear, you are one of the lucky ones. The fact that your ended when you went back on Adderall means that she loved the real you, and that the real you was competent enough to secure a relationship for 4 years almost to the marriage threshold. Those are very positive indicators for what you are capable of without Adderall.

When it comes to the harder job that drove you back to Adderall, that's understandable. I would start spouting advice about how to deal with that, but since you already quit it's not an issue.

My question for you now is: How are you going to approach things differently this time, work-wise? Are you going to shoot for a job you can better handle without the pills? Are you going to shoot for a job with the same level of difficulty and try to build up your willpower so that it becomes strong enough to handle it? Either path is possible.

But decide in advance what you're going to do. Where you get into trouble is when you start going hyper-ambivalent about what to do, while you're committed to one. Easier to set your mind going into the battle, so you can start to prep your brain and heart for the nature of the war ahead. Now you've got a chance to do that.

As for the porn: Pornography addiction is a very common side-effect of amphetamine use, from what I understand. Dr. Drew even talks about that links sometimes.

I think the good news about your porn problem is that porn is a very binary boundary. Either you allow your brain (and your mouse pointer) to go in "that" direction, or you don't. And once you stop it's easy to stay away. Your brain thinks porn is gross. It can come up with plenty of reasons why it's probably not healthy for your psyche to look at it. And then your dick chimes in and all bets are off. The more you ignore your sex drive for a little bit, the more your brain takes control, and the easier it is to let the brain have its say on decisions like porn.

So whereas a drug addiction may take weeks or months to break, most porn addictions can be broken pretty easily. Go a full week without porn, and your boundary will be pretty strong already.

And then you should just focus on being busy with things you care about. When it comes to porn, there's a lot of truth to the saying "idle hands are the devil's plaything". Fill up your day.

Plus quitting Adderall will very much help you avoid being so obsessive about porn and spending way too much time in what I've heard called "the porn trance" (where the addict spends 5 hours picking the right scene, and 3 minutes...using it).

This might be interesting to you: True Porn Clerk Stories It used to be available free online, which is how I stumbled onto it. Very interesting read. You learn all about all the porn addicts that come into the shops. For your purposes, it will help you externalize by seeing what porn addiction looks like from the outside.

Anyhow, good luck and hope that helps!

And yeah, don't worry about this girl thing just yet. Get you shit straight first. And even better, get happy again.

I am on day 11 with no Adderall and I feel fantastic. I am telling you...the addition of Wellbutrin XL at 450mg a day has made the transition much easier. While I do crave Adderall a lot, I have taken some measures to make sure I don't go back on it. I downloaded a "Coping with Adult ADD" ebook to my ipad and have been learning strategies to set up my life so that I can deal with my ADHD better. I saw my shrink on Monday and he agreed he think's I'm old enough to try other strategies other than stimulants. So my access to Adderall is now thwarted (kind of) I feel bad but I am avoiding a couple of friends who use recreationally. Im ok with that. Having resigned from my job before I am taking a month or so to detox, hit the gym, go running, and let the Wellbutrin fully build up in my system.

Now Mike, to address your question regarding what am I going to do when I get another job. I am still going to pursue a similar job that I had before. I naturally have a A type of personality and like a fast paced environment. In one of your articles on this website you mentioned (and I'm not word for wording it here) that you should just try to get through the day and do what you can. Unfortunately, that would be death for me in my line of business (Sales) where you have to meet thresholds and quotas. But you bring up a good point and this is what scares me BIG TIME. Do I regulate myself to a much less challenging job because of my ADHD with no Adderall and go the rest of my life knowing I was capable of making way more money and having a better job. Or...do I go back to a similar high paying stressful job without the Adderall and hope I can handle it, and obviously the last option is to go back to the stressful job but using Adderall as prescribed.

The last option is extremely tricky for me because when I take it as prescribed I slowly over a matter of months start to re-addict and use it recreationally. But now that I have cancelled the drug dealers number I could have my doctor do a pill count each month so I wouldnt abuse it. The problem has never been the Adderall at PRESCRIBED dosages, it actually helps a lot in that regard, its when I start to seriously ABUSE it and invert my personality. I become a wreck and I end up on sites like this.

This is a tough call for me Mike because I want to make money and have a great family. I don't feel that I should be regulated to some job that I am way overqualified for just because I can't pay attention as well as the next person. That is why I am reading books -"Driven to Distraction" sits on my shelf and now some other ebooks to help find non medicated ways to possibly overcome this hurdle. Organization in itself is crucial, which I'm good at but I could be better.

What are your thoughts? Thank you so much for writing back to me and I'm sorry it took a little while to get back to you.

John

[John]

I think y'all are right: the hyper-sexual effect is amphetamine in action. I've heard this from people who were cocaine addicts too, especially the porn obsession. There's something very compulsive and joyless about that kind of sexual drive though, I think. It doesn't exactly make women want to stick around and have a meaningful relationship. The "real you" may not be quite as "athletic", but probably one hell of a nicer guy!

John, if you don't mind saying: has your mom realized that she has a problem with Adderall? Or does she think she's found the Wonder Drug for whatever ails her? Just asking ... I am (ahem) probably about her age, and unlike many who got the drug from a doctor for ADHD, I got it for depression and fatigue. I have been on & off it for the past ten years, and I'm starting to realize the older I get, the less well I tolerate it ... and the harder it is to kick. I hope she'll maybe take a look at this board sometime, or reach out for help some other way. Best of luck to you both!

PS: I recently dug up a book from the early 70's, which described "speed freaks" engaging in all manner of meaningless compulsive activities for hours: stringing beads, taking apart stereos, painting little patterns all over their apartment walls. A Swedish doctor coined the word "punding" to describe this. I almost fell over laughing. Now that we're blessed with the Internet, it is possible to "Pund" for hours without anyone even knowing it! And I bet Adderallics have logged billions of hours. Whether shopping for the perfect porn video, or the perfect laptop, or chasing down obscure factoids we've just got to know... oh dear. The more things change the more they stay the same.

I am extremely angry at my mom for taking my pills once I gave them to her in confidence to hold for me. In hindsight I don't really think that she thought it out at all. If I have a script for 60 pills per month (enough at 40mg per day for 30 days) then I would run short by the end of the month if she took them. I thereby had to find "alternative" means of replacing the lost pills. Well when you deal with unsavory people who deal Adderall they usually have way more than a couple of pills, thereby exposing you to copious amounts of the orange devil. Anyways, after my complete meltdown (ie. losing the gf of 4 years, resigning from my job etc); my mom said to herself "maybe I should lay off the adderall and never take it again...it seems to have effected my son pretty negatively on numerous occasions" Had my mom made this decision 2 months ago it would have been nearly impossible to readdict so heavily to the pills. I would have only had the prescribed amount and wouldn't have abused them for fear of being without the necessary pills towards the end of the month. So my mom is off them now too permanently. She is able to kick things pretty easily and given my situation will not go back on them. Anwyays, thank you so much for the message I really appreciate it...it really helps to talk to people with similar issues and even just to vent sometimes. ttys

John