stealthology
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Good stuff, keep it up. I've looked into the adrenal fatigue stuff and completely agree.
I only use lard because I don't tolerate butter well. Funny how I'd been regularly eating small amounts of dairy my entire life and didn't even know my body hates the stuff until recently. I also discovered recently I have histamine intolerance, so I need to avoid high histamine foods (aged/fermented, unfresh meat, avocados/spinach, etc).
Keto really isn't that complex, it's basically eat meat, but not too much. Many people can't get into ketosis above 100g of protein. The fattier cut the better, and you can supplement with a small amount of cruciferous veggies, and another fat source if your meats aren't high enough in fat (butter, ghee, beef tallow, lard, coconut oil, etc). Adapting to become a much more efficient fat burner from a primarily sugar burning state can take as little as a week to a handful of weeks depending on how insulin resistant/how much metabolically damaged you are. For many it's really not that bad or long. The body is just like 'where the carbs at? wtf?' -- but then it quickly learns to use the fat as your primary fuel source- whether it be dietary fat or the fat on your body.
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10 hours ago, Frank B said:
What do you eat for breakfast? Although love to have eggs and bacon everyday time wise normally don't have that luxury. Most all cereal and breakfast bars are high in carbs / sugar what's a fast high protein alternative?
Nowadays, I eat ~4-5oz ground beef cooked in extra lard for breakfast with a quite small portion of beef liver. An optional egg or two. I have it with a cup of homemade bone broth which I make & freeze every 3-4 weeks. Most days I have crazy energy right after eating. It's cool to witness food giving you energy vs. making you want to take a 15-minute nap. I'm on 0 caffeine and 0 supplements.
Bacon & eggs are great, Sugar-free & nitrate free bacon if you can afford it. Most people tend to find that beef is the most satiating meat.
Our society is addicted to carbs as I was my entire life growing up, and it's leading to numerous health epidemics which simply were not around before people became afraid of fat in the 80's & 90's and subsequently increased their carb intake (esp. processed, packaged carbs). It's funny though, the food I eat is so filling and satisfying that I simply don't crave carbs. I also know how I'll feel if I eat a nice, fluffy bagel or big bowl of cereal and milk.
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Quit-once -- it's the incorrect application of the ketogenic diet which makes it unsafe. That's where doing your homework beforehand counts.
I joke with myself that just about every day it feels like I'm on Adderall now. I have a laser like focus and energy. My moods are incredible and I don't get cranky. I'm almost never hungry and eat 2-3 times a day without snacking. Food is DELICIOUS. My skin is completely cleared up. My strength in the gym has gone up. My cholesterol has gone down and HDL up. So much more.
I feel like a very low carb, high fat diet can do wonders for the drug rehab crowd. I guess they're going to have to want to do it though, similar to quitting. And it will take some motivation to ensure you do things correct.
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I began adderall while in college at age 19 and didn't quit until age 30. I wanted to quit at around age 22-23. Don't let years in your prime be swept away by rationalizing your use.
Life is so much fuller off Adderall. Drastic reductions in anxiety, paranoia, stress. You'll genuinely care about relationships again. You'll get deep, restful sleep. Everyday life will just feel more enjoyable.
What helped me? The ketogenic diet. Low carb, high [healthy] fat. For a good overview, here's a new article out from PsychologyToday discussing the ketogenic diet and different psychiatric disorders including ADD:
I understand most folks won't have the discipline to really follow through, but the energy, mental clarity, stabalization in mood/anxiety, increase in confidence/testosterone, etc are pretty massive. Google 'ketogenic diet increased energy mental clarity'.
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A smidgen off-topic here as it's more diet related, but it's what has been helping me a TON when I quit 13 weeks ago: go on Google and research the ketogenic diet and increased energy and mental clarity. It's a match made in heaven for those quitting Adderall. My energy, clarity, mood, anxiety, depression, T levels, etc are incredibly stabilized.
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I don't think he said he expects to have no bad days.
FWIW: One of the reasons why I reasoned with myself to stay on Addy for as long as I did (11 years) was coming on here every couple of years or so and reading all the horror stories and people struggling. It is what it is. I also took extreme action from a health perspective when I quit 3 months ago by adopting the ketogenic diet (<50g of carbs per day, lots of healthy fat and moderate protein). Personally I took out grains, [modern] dairy, basically all sugar and processed carbs. I'm eating like our ancestors ate for 99% of human existence and feel incredible.
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While I agree that 3 weeks clean is rather early on, every one of us is unique and won't require 1+ years to feel 'normal' again. Many factors at play here- including your state of mind.
Personally I'm 3 months clean and still have 20 pills sitting in my desk. I haven't once thought about taking it, because I know I'm done. Why would I want to go backwards and feel like shit? I'm fine with them sitting there.
Regarding Tony Robbins- he positively affects quite a bit of people for no charge. Check out his new Netflix documentary (https://www.netflix.com/title/80102204). It was an enjoyable watch which I got at least a bit out of.
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Love your energy and attitude. I'm ~3 months clean from 11 years of use and 3-4 years of pretty bad abuse. Life is so much more enjoyable.
Just kicked Klonopin completely 2 weeks ago as well. Titrated down from 1.5mg. I'm med free. Even though my circumstances in life currently aren't the best in a financial sense (Addy-fueled overconfidence in the stock market), I feel great.
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I took the new version of Modafinil (called Nuvigil) for about 3 weeks after I quit Adderall. It helped quite a bit as a stepping stone. Nuvigil lasts longer than Modafinil and definitely packs a bit more punch. After those 3 weeks, I could sense my body didn't want me on any pharma stimulants while adapting to the ketogenic diet, which I began strategically when I decided to quit Addy.
It's been about 3 months since my last Adderall, and maybe 2 mo's since I last took Nuvigil, and I don't oversleep and I have incredible energy and mental focus. I no longer consume caffeine, just whole foods. Processed carbs, any sugar, and (hence) insulin spikes are the enemy. This focus is pretty insane, and my anxiety has shot down extremely far (almost to a fault, but hey I'm new to being anxiety free ;)). It does take quite a bit of discipline to initially adapt. I wanted it bad, and I'm extremely happy with where I am now.
I was on Addy for 11 years, the last few years I abused it 2-4 times a month. It was pretty bad.
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Would you believe me if I said it helps with all of the above? Because it does. It's weird, I've been anxious my entire life, and I love looking folks in the eye now and peering into their reality while speaking to them. After quitting Adderall, I'm down from 1.5mg Klonopin/day to 0.5mg/day and I'm about ready to come down to 0.25mg/day. I'm on nothing else, I'm not even regularly drinking caffeine. Gotta give the adrenals a break, no?
I'd recommend a couple books if this has grabbed your interest: Keto Clarity and/or The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living. My local Barnes & Nobles had Keto Clarity in stock. Keto Clarity has a case study of a 21 year old who stopped taking his Adderall after starting the keto diet. You can find many other anecdotal reports out there online.
Also, if I could recommend one resource on YouTube it would be "stephanie keto person". The first video I saw from her when I began this 'way of life', I didn't subscribe and wrote her off as a little off her rocker, but she knows her stuff and has worked with thousands of people helping them get into nutritional ketosis. She also collaborated on the Keto Clarity book.
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The ketogenic diet will help alleviate many of these
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Takes quite the commitment, and you want to do quite a bit of research before starting (or see a keto-friendly dietition). I'm about 2 months from my last pink pill after being enslaved for 11 years and haven't had any cravings for my Adderall (or carbs for that matter
). I actually read in one of my texts that Narcoleptics are using the diet to help them with energy/staying awake, etc. I'm actually thinking of entrepreneurial ideas to help addicts get clean using dietary ketosis.
I'm going to be making a thread about my quit story soon enough.
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I'm 1.5 months from my last pill (after 11 years on Adderall) and my anxiety, eye contact, and confidence are all WAY up. There may be more factors at play here including my pre-Adderall baseline anxiety, my new 'diet' and current state in life.
I had crazy anxiety on Addy-- I would avoid at all costs being on it while around others during most of my tenure on the devil (Adderall). I now walk with my head high and speak what's on my mind without hesitation. Even though I'm single and my finances are not great (due in part to some stupid decisions while binging), I find myself now to be happier than I've been in a very long time. Life is much more enjoyable off the Addy. Period.
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Hey guys,
I haven't seen this posted on the forum yet, so I wanted to start a discussion on this. Has anyone here tried or even heard of the Ketogenic diet? I'm giving it a try, and my results have been stellar so far after recently coming off of the devil (Addy). I refer to it as the 'Lebron James Diet' with friends since he and many other athletes of late have used Ketogenic diets to improve physical performance and mental energy/clarity. Lebron lost ~25 pounds and absolutely gained more strength. I also remember reading some super long distance running records have been broken in recent years (100 mile type races) on Ketosis. Physical performance/increased energy/clarity is just touching the tip of the iceberg in regards to benefits though. The diet burns fat for fuel rather than carbs (whether it be dietary fat or existing fat on your body); and your body will be much more efficient. Eating dietary fat doesn't spike insulin, whereas carbs/sugar directly turn into glucose/sugar after you eat it, spiking your insulin.
The hardest part in the beginning is getting over the fact that saturated fats/dietary fats will not make you fat, clog your arteries, lead to a host of cardiovascular related ailments (actually the opposite-- high carb/sugar intake will do that with insulin spiking & all that), etc. We can all thank Ancel Keys about 50 years ago for that outright false information regarding saturated fats (do stay away from trans fat). If you're a bit apprehensive about the saturated fat thing, do a little research or ping me for some guidance. I've spent quite a bit of time educating myself.
70%+ of your calories will be coming from fat, and ~5% from carbs. After you make the adjustment (will take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks), you'll find your cravings for carbs are gone and these high fat/moderate protein meals keep them satisfied for a loong time.
I can eat all the butter/ghee, bacon/sausage, coconut milk, eggs, grass fed higher fat meats, avocados, olive oil, MCT oil, etc as I want. Personally, I approached this slowly and over the course of 2 months I gradually increased fat and decreased carbs/sugar. Several days ago, I set my mind to go all out. My carbs now come from pretty much just veggies. I live with some 'normies', so I'll sneak a little bread here and there, but not enough to bring me out of ketosis. It's also not a big deal to go in and out of ketosis once your body initially adapts; however the older and more insulin resistant you are, the harder it may be to switch back and forth once you adapt.
My physique, face and skin are looking better than they have in many years, I'm super lean (say goodbye to all that water weight!), and I feel pretty electrified with energy without the use of any stimulants (just vitamins, tea, and some lighter exercise every morning). I also began to make gains in the gym again-- that could also partly be attributed to lifting less often/more rest days. There have been tons of recent positive studies on Ketosis.
Light-hearted video below, but check YouTube/Amazon/Google for more info on the Ketogenic Diet if interested.
I'm pretty damn excited. Adderall is in my rear-view mirror.
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On 1/29/2014 at 9:20 PM, quit-once said:
I looked and looked for anything besides anecdotal stories of long term Adderall abuse and never found anything. I believe it is because Big Pharma controls the science of drugs and since this one is such a lucrative substance they really don't want negative information out there. So the scientific information available is mostly from studies done with kids and low doses, since that is what is typically prescribed. And Adderall as a branded drug has only existed for 20 years or so, although amphetamines and other speed have been around since the 1930's. Parkinsons Disease is one of the few documented conditions related to long term use. Alcohol addiction has plagued mankind for centuries so there is a lot of information on the side effects of abusing that evil drug and how it kills people.
I have a pretty long list. I will restrict it to only the physical, (not mental or behavioral) side effects that I experienced. By the way, I abused adderall as a binge user for nine years, then daily the last two years, at a dosage of 100-150 mg per day, and I have been off it for about 32 months.
Sensory:
Blurry vision. Dry eyes. Tears of fire. Eye muscle twitches. Poor depth perception.
Impaired hearing. Audio hallucinations. Ringing in my ears.
Impaired sense of smell. Nose runs lasting all day. Incessant sneezing. Hoarse voice.
Physical numbness. Drooling. Tongue thrashing. Jaw clenching. My tongue is still semi-active.
Heightened and impaired sense of taste. Mouth burns. Biting my tongue and cheek. Difficulty swallowing and choking.
Also:
Dry, brittle and cracked skin. Mystery cuts and scratches. Red splotches on my face and elsewhere that would last for days.
Weird and offensive body odors.
Sexual and urinary dysfunction.
Muscle twitches and spasms. I still have these in my lower extremities.
Brittle hair. Thinning hair. Gray hair. My hair got healthy again and less thin and gray after quitting.
Dark nails. Hangnails.
Reduced sleep, both quantity and quality - only 5 hours daily.
Bloated, puffy skin. Bags or circles under my eyes. Acne. Keratonosis.
Weight gain from poor eating habits and lack of sleep. Excessive belly fat.
Shortness of breath. Wheezing. Craving cigarettes.
Bad eating habits and poor food choices.
Heart palpitations - like a cell phone on vibrate in my shirt pocket. Heart beating hard and out of my chest.
Rapid pulse - my resting heart rate was 110-120 BPM, and right now it is 56 BPM.
Purple hands that were always cold. My whole body felt cold, and I also overheated easily too. Night sweats.
Sore muscles, sore joints and brittle bones. Broken and brittle teeth, despite taking extra calcium.
Digestive issues and acid reflux. especially at night.
I may come back to this and add more as I think of it. My God, if that wasn't enough reason to quit, I still have an equally long list of the mental deficiencies Adderall caused but that is another post.
Did the puffy/dark circles get better after quitting?
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One of my few friends I have left giving me a call yesterday during a binge and me not talking like myself at all, being more negative, etc.
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I've been taking Green Mountain CBD for a few weeks and can vouch for their product. Works excellent for social anxiety as well as mood disorders, epilepsy, pain, PTSD, drug addiction, etc. Organically grown hemp plants in Vermont, 100% legal since there's only trace amounts of THC.
www.GreenMountainCBD.com
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Hey all,
For the vast majority of folks, it seems like once you start periodically taking obscene amounts, it's really tough to go back and stick with those 'therapeutic' doses.
I'm 10 years in (began in college) and I really don't think I can afford to cold turkey it at this juncture in my life. I've been self employed my entire life and I feel my recent financial/career mistakes were from overconfidence during binging. Anyone out there who went from abuse, to therapeutic use, then quit later on? I know it'll take discipline like no other and a strict healthy lifestyle. I know it's kinda like dragging out a relationship which you know is going nowhere. I just don't want to dig myself deeper into the hole I just dug for myself.
Anyone want to start a support type group for those wanting to go from abuse to therapeutic use before quitting this hell of a drug?
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Hi hyper,
If you're free to meet, could you let me know? I'd love for the opportunity to meet some folks who have quit for good. I'm 29, got sucked in during University when I was a sophmore.
The negatives are without a doubt outweighing the positives, and I'm almost positive they have been for many years.
Dan
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Can you honestly compare your productivity level from the period before you quit to now (no usage)?
I really want to quit, but I am self employed and it seems like there's always tons of stuff to do. I have a feeling though that "natural motivation" may kick in once I've re-adjusted to my non-Addy self. I've done mini-breaks from Addy (up to 14 days), and I generally feel much more relaxed, happier, and more spontaneous. I guess I'm just fearing writing proposals/talking to clients without the Addy.
Ketogenic Diet for Energy and Mental Clarity
in General Discussion
Posted
It's highly effective for losing weight. The funny thing is I struggle sometimes to ensure I don't lose weight since I was already lean before keto. All I do is eat more fat, lol. By the way, for what it's worth, I'm stronger lifting weights now vs. before keto. I started keto purely for the mental/energy benefits.
Quitting Adderall and basically starting keto at the same time has drastically helped my anxiety, depression, and overall moods. Don't expect your average doctor to be on board with keto, but I'm sure you'll get their attention with any weight loss & better blood work. I'm so addicted to the keto buzz. Sometimes, it feels very similar to being on Adderall. I'm being serious.
Congrats Frank -- keep it up, it only gets better. Personally, I don't spend any money on keto supplements. The keto industry is really kinda taking off so it's understandable to see all these people making products. My staples are himalayan pink salt, grass fed ground beef, salmon, some egg yolks, chicken here and there, lard (get some at your local butcher), and some cruciferous veggies. I've had great results leaning more towards animal foods vs. plant foods. For 99% of the time we've been on this planet, we've been hunter & gatherers. Animal products are how our brains evolved to be so huge. Try and make sure you eat at least a 2:1 ratio in grams of fat:protein. Personally, I eat over 80% of my calories as fat and I feel amazing and my body composition has never been better. This is much better than Adderall.
Nice. Personally, I've gone in and out of keto here and there over the course of the last 5 months. I hate being out of ketosis. A destructive day of higher carbs will mean for me ~2 days of hard work to get back to feeling good, and that's ounce you're mostly adapted. The "keto flu" mainly refers to the first 2-3 weeks of mainly an electrolyte imbalance in your body. Celtic sea salt or pink Himalayan salt is your best friend. If you didn't get a "buzz" from it.. I would make sure your fats are high enough, mainly from animal sources. 75-80%+ of your calories should be coming from fat.
I took .5-1mg Klonopin everyday for 10 years along with my Adderall. Earlier this year, a month after quitting Adderall and starting keto, I quit Klonopin. I felt a bit more anxiety for 3-4 weeks, then I felt amazing. YMMV. I now take 0 meds and also 0 supplements. No need to take a multivitamin or pre-workout if the food you are eating is nutrient dense. Do you know how big the supplement industry is? I do eat some bone broth and a small amount of beef liver daily for insurance. Screw meds. I feel better than ever now on absolutely nothing.
Btw, for those new to keto, there's a pretty good introduction book available on Amazon & at your local Barnes & Noble called Keto Clarity.