Jonny5

Your As and Bs won't go to Ds. Those are the people who just don't do the work. My advice, take it slow and pace yourself with college. In 5 or 10 years, it will not matter one bit if you took 12 hours a semester when all your friends took 14 or 16. And no, despite what some of your professors may say or insinuate, college isn't the real world and you aren't going to fail at life if you don't work yourself stupid doing a bunch of their BS which, let's face it, ends up in the trash can at the end of the semester anyways. Professors aren't exactly my favorite group of people, and my opinion is defineately biased, but a lot of them are there because they're such incompetent jerks that couldn't get it done on the outside. Developing your social skills and intelligence is way more important to your future success than the grade you got in O Chem lab. Take a vacation at the end of the semester and leave the pills at home. If you're stimulated enough exploring some place new, you'll hardly notice them. You can start the next semester at a lower dose or try not taking them regularly. 60 mgs/day is kind of a lot and after several years they just won't do much for you except make you feel old.... and angry... all the time.

Do you live in the north? It could be the change in daylight hours - just a thought. Me and most people I know get a little sluggish when it starts being dark all the time. During the summer I stay busy, happy and productve and don't need much sleep b/c the sun's always shining. Go to a tanning bed or get one of those plant growing lights.

I check in here every 4 or 5 months so I can remember how much it stunk to stop. 1. Well, fear is a crap motivator. It won't keep you stopped cuz you'll forget how afraid you once were. I guess us humans are wired like that or we wouldn't have dared fight a mamoth more than once in our distant past. Think off all the things you'll be able to do if you are clean of them - you WILL be better at your work in a few months, you'll be so much more interesting and funny to other people, you'll be way more trustworthy, and of course healthier. 2. I messed up bad and the only place I had to go was a state detox. After that, I rounded up enough cash to catch a plane to a far away state and that was 18 months ago - I was instantly very busy building a new life from scratch. If you really are serious you have to cut ties with you sources. Call that doc the next time you're coming down and feeling crummy, tell him you're abusing them and that will be that. I don't think he can legally prescribe them after that. If you're source is a diversion, you can do something similar, but you'll lose the friend - but that's not a friend anyways. Really, the withdrawal from this and most drugs is mostly in your head. Staying in bed and eating and being depressed only makes it feel worse. Go to work or school even if you don't feel like it. You'll live, and the time goes by faster. In a few months you'll feel good. I mean really good

No. I never used meth. Good thing. If I'd smoked or injected it once or twice, that would have been the end of me. Meth is a bad scene, what with all the violence and it being so illegal. Or a person can go to a doctor and get the same basic thing. Go figure. My amphetamine use started with adderall and ended with dexedrine. Dexedrine was my favorite. I've had relationships with lots of drugs, but amphetamines and strong opiates were the two I got the most out of.. and that took the most from me. My opinions on your dose are, once again, from some random person, etc. Go ask a pharmacist or doctor for real professional advice. A pharmacist or ER doctor would be your best bet. Seriously, just walk into a pharmacy other than your regular one when it isn't busy and the pharmacist will usually talk you ear off about these things. 20mg a day isn't very much at all, and is right in the middle of the therapeutic range. A person could take that for years and and not physically be much worse for it if their heart was healthy to start with. Florida.. yuck. 17 years I lived there. Moved up to rhode island last june. I was livng in a state detox there and was homeless up here. If a person is going to be on the street, providence in the summer isn't that bad. I went UF and studied engineering, which I didn't complete after almost 5 years. I spent too much time learning how to use factory equipment to make parts for a race car. Then I got a couple jobs working as a machinist. Now there's a huge machinist shortage. So I got the job by NOT doing my homework in school, and I earn more than if I were working as an engineer. Dumb luck. You'll can get a better job. I just know it. And so do you AA/NA. No way and never again. I was introduced to that in rehab and that was a 3 year mindfuck. Couldn't stay clean for even a month, and it confused me and made feel guilty, almost suicidally. Sitting around talking about drinking and drugs for an hour everyday really got me wanting to drink and use. Now I stop by every month or so to get a chip and keytag... out of spite. Yeah, lots of people learn to moderate. Most people quit on their own, like they always have. Addiction isn't a disease, and for chrissake, take some credit for quitting heroin and crack. God or AA didn't do that, you did. These are the kinds of things you intuitively know are true and which you have to lie to yourself about in 12 step groups. Jon

Last year when I was in a position that's maybe similar to yours, I was reading a forum about people quitting meth. Some went on talked about 12 step programs, rehabs, families, partners, etc. One guy wrote: "10 months clean, thanks jail!" And he stayed clean so he didn't have to go back. It can be that simple. My quitting of drugs and alcohol is kinda sorta similar, minus the 10 months jail. Good thing I went from being homeless to earning a very large income in just a couple months, because I have lots of debt and a few defense lawyers to pay. I can post the whole thing or you can pm me, but my story is probably only interesting to me. Do you keep a prescription for most of a month? If you don't go on week long benders or mess up your health, maybe you should stay on them. You're not breaking a law, so what business is it of your boyfriends? Get another one. Don't let someone work out their hangups on you or keep you as a hostage. Or, if it's just that good of a relationship, and one his tics is that the important people in his life have to be completely clean, then he takes priority. Quit. I had a therapist once who asked me questions like this - basically what do you want? You don't have to impress anyone, and not everything you want has to be "good". Shame and guilt are lousy motivators anyway.

Hmmm.... Ask for feedback on the internet and you'll get some, even though it's from a random person with nothing invested in your situation. Take it for what it's worth - not much. You probably won't like this. Quitting: 1. You have to want to quit. It's not the same as "wanting to want" to quit. For me, the pain of continuing was clearly worse than the pain of quitting. Result: A year off amphetamines and 5 months from everything else. 2. Give Adderall it's place. You like it a lot sometimes. It makes you feel good and gives you "energy". It's not all bad. It's just not always good for you, me, and lots of other people. It's not a person or a disease, it's a thing. 3. Write a letter to the doctor(s) that give it to you. Call them while the letter's in the mail. Tell them you're abusing them and not to prescribe any more to you. They won't. If you're hesitant to cut yourself off, then it means that you really don't want to quit, simple as that. This is about you, so be honest here. If you don't want to stop, don't. Adjust your life accordingly. You should be able to do all this in 30 minutes or so. Congratulations!! You have now quit, or should I say quit "trying" to quit. 4. Take a nap or a walk or something else relaxing. That's enough for one day. You can deal with your relationship, therapists, and all the rest of it later. I'm not trying to be a jerk, really. I went to a rehab, and a detox, and all the rest of it. I can relate to the cycle of being in "recovery" and "going out", I don't know what screwed me up worse, the drugs or the "cure". I want other people to know that they CAN do it, and it is simple. Hope to hear back from you soon. Jon

I moved to rhode island from florida (mostly rural) after living there 17 years. I say y'all, too. Without shame. It's a great word. And now there's a new england accent creeping into my speech. oh well. It seems that we all arrive at the same conclusion: not even a little bit, ever. AA/NA was pretty harmful for someone with my personality. I've seen other people get what they needed out if it and succeed in living clean. One of the things that makes me a little sad is that I gave this stuff a whole lot of power in my life. It really took over. And amphetamines were "it" for me, they used to mean so much to me. I remember thinking how hard it would be to quit, struggle of a lifetime and all that. The sadness comes from when I really decided to be done with all of it, it was....... easy to quit. Learning to deal with everything else has be really hard. It was a big mental fortress that I constructed, and it turned out not to be there. An illusion. Kathleen, what do think about the concept of surrender? That was really important for me. To just give up "trying". There was no "try" any more. Just do.

I'm agree with the first two replies. It took awhile to get over the hump, but I'm way more productive w/out it. I have to prioritize and pace myself, but I don't waste endless hours and little stuff that doesn't matter at the expense of things that do matter.

Wow. Over 2 months. That's a real accomplishment. It's neat how quickly some of the good stuff comes back, like appreciating little things such as a walk or cake. It'll be a year for me any day now. So so worth it. Glad to read you flushed the last of it down. Something you wrote jumped out me. I hear that a lot from people who no longer drink or take pills or whatever, and it bothers me. Sometimes from people who haven't had a drink or drug in 10 or 15 years. The cognitive dissonance this creates isn't good. I mean, it's not possible to be an addict if you no longer consume drugs, since to be an addict means that you are compulsively using drugs. Wouldn't it more realistic to say that you used to be an addict? I get your point though - you know if you were to start again you'd most likely be right back where you were or worse in very short time. And you have the sense to realize this and you choose not to take a bad risk.... of becoming an addict again.

Kathleen, Cool post. I'm coming up on 1 year off of prescription amphetamines next month. Not so long that I can't remember the highs and lows and what not, but long enough to have a little perspective. I quit everything else (alcohol and other mind altering substances) just short of 4 months ago. Just the cigs left. I really identify with some of the feelings you talked about. The just not caring about anything except whatever trivial tasks you were up to at the moment... having no feelings at all. I remember thinking the whole world was ending (it really felt that dooming) whenever I'd crash, or run out, or when I finally was done... how was I ever gonna have fun or get anything done ever again? Looking back though, I wasn't really having fun, just experiencing exhilaration. I also wasn't getting that much done, and shamefully, I had gotten really damn ... weird. And angry. And pathetic. I still think about adderall and dexedrine most every day, but now its more like an minor itch. It's not an option, and the thought passes as fast as it comes. I had the prescription cycle where I would swear it off right after I ran out, and then, like clockwork, I'd get another as soon as I was able. Substance abusers are so, so predictable. I lost physical access to the doctor when I went to a state run drug detox and immediately moved to new england. You're probably gonna have to get yourself cut off by telling your doctor you abuse them. Ten minutes later you might regret it but ten months later you'll know it was maybe the one good decision you made while you were coming down. Thing is, if I can get clean and sober, anybody, and I mean anybody, can do it. And I did it not because of the better life that might be waiting for me. Nope. I'm kind of a coward.... I did because I just couldn't take the misery and pain anymore. The paradox is that the first couple months felt awful. But a pill or drink or whatever would just make it worse, even if I felt a little better. I'll stop with an something entertaining I've gotten out of being clean. After just a little while, you're gonna start to notice all the "hidden" addicts and problem drinkers around you, before most everyone else does. B/c you were one. And they all think they have everybody fooled.

Hi, Relax... you probably haven't caused any permanent damage to your your body. You're only 22. Amphetamines are vaso-constrictors and the smallest blood vessels in the body are near the surface (skin). So, yes it dries out your skin and hair by restricting blood (fluid) supply, causing fluctuations in the amount of oil your body produces. This causes the acne. In 2 or 3 weeks you should be back to normal, and not really any worse for it. Remember that amphetamines cause paranoia and anxiety - so a person thinks that they've f'd themselves up way more than they really have. Unless they really have. Also keep in mind that crystal meth addicts (just another amphetamine - feels about the same as Adderall but not quite as physical) regularly do 1000+ mgs per day. It's a rare Adderall user who comes close to that. Some signs that you REALLY are causing damage. I'm not a doctor, so take the info for what it is - just some random on the internet. - twitches, shakes, or unexpected muscle movements after you've stopped. Amphetamines are linked to Tourette's syndrome and Parkinson's disease. Being a potent dopamine and nervous system stimulant, this makes sense. - persistant cognitive impairment, particularly working (short term) memory. Again, after you've stopped. While you're on it, and if the doses aren't so high that sleep deprivation takes over, speed slightly improves short term memory and cognition speed. In the long term, and at high doses, it harms these systems. I personally can't remember a flipping thing I do from minute to minute. I have to write everything down. No problems with long term memory, thank God. - kidney and liver problems. Diabetes, jaundice, fatigue, dark urine, extreme thirt, and confusion are symptoms of damage to these organs. - High blood pressure and or heart rate, again, after you're off the pills. Oh, and chest pains, either during or after use. The higher baseline heart rate means the valves in your ticker may not be opening and closing as well as they used to. - Rotting teeth. The tightening of the small blood vessels in the body dries out you're mouth, so you don't make as much saliva as you should. Add some sugar, and voila!!!, big cavities. Quick. - Flatter affect. You aren't able to experience pleasure the same way you did before the speed. On the plus side, I don't feels the lows that I used to. It sort of leveled me out. Real life seems boring. Supposedly, this effect heals with time. - Psychosis. Hearing or seeing things that aren't there while or after using, especially voices and peripheral visual hallucinations. Paranoia. A sure sign that you need to stop. In the early stages, you know it's not real, so you're able to ignore it. Later on, you're not sure. Later still, it seems so real that you react, mostly by doing really stupid things. Hope you find this useful

Hey man, I hope you're getting a little encouragement from some of the good people around here. You're young and you can beat this. I was a chronic relapser and at times almost resigned myself to being chained to amphetamines for the rest of what probably be a short life. Today is 90 days clean for me and I had to go through some really hard stuff to earn them. Nobody can ever take it away from me! You sound like a competitive type person, so you might look at it as a disguised opportunity... this could be one of your finest moments. Adderall is no joke - a tough battle. Do it for yourself. Most people will never understand, and no, you don't get a trophy or anything:) But you get your dignity and self respect back, and maybe even more than you started with. As for the relationship, all I can offer is that you'll be very wise for your age if you figure out now that you can't fix people. It NEVER works and most of the time you end up hurting them worse instead. The best thing you can do is take care of yourself. You'll be setting an example - and that's real help. It's possible that right now the pills mean more to her than anything else, even you. That's her choice and she's got that right, if you want to call it that. Oh, and I'm sure that you know by now that amphetamine addicts lie...just be real careful about getting back together unless you're sure she's clean. You could find yourself right back in the same crappy situ. And yes, I'm a man, and I use cry my soul out all the time over what this stuff was doing to me. It means I still had enough of a heart left to care.

Wow. That's really cool! Sounds like you're feeling better about things all around. Neat that you and your friend got on better terms. The alcohol tolerance thing is normal. On the uppers, I could drink as much as I liked without getting sloppy. That's not always isn't a good thing - you're drunk enough to do incredibly stupid things, and you have the energy and coordination to do them! More seriously, people should be careful mixing amphetamines and alcohol - it's possible to consume enough booze to kill yourself, where a person would normally pass out long before then. I'm with you on the college teachers. They make it all seem so damn important, like you'll fail at life if you don't pass calc 2. Please... Truth is, except for getting your first job outta college, where you went to school and the grades you got there don't mean crap in the real world. PS, you're first job isn't all that important either

Trey, Nice to hear from a fellow dex-head. 5mg instant release dexedrine tablets? Pretty sure that's what is loaded in Satan's Pez dispenser. The doctor gave me 150 of those things per month. The looks I got at the pharmacy were hilarious. I don't think anyone else in my entire county gets them or that many. I never took another Adderall after the first dexedrine. The euphoria is pretty tough to let go of - like I used to just sit and bask in my own glory for 20 or 30 minutes when I started to feel them - about 10 minutes after I took them. They shouldn't be legal, for anyone. Best of luck to you. headf**k is right.

how is this detox going to feel? - uncomfortable, but mild. 4 or 5 days and you should be 95% of normal. You're very young, and you'll bounce back quick. Again, not trying to minimize your situation; on the "suck scale", I put amphetamine withdrawal above opiate withdrawal. Psychological pain is worse than physical pain IMHO. Sleep enough, but not too much. Go to bed a little earlier and wake up at the same time as you usually do. Melatonin is a good supplement. You might have intense dreams about Adderall for a pretty long time. Your subconscious mind has to process the presence/absence of amphetamines. The dreams are normal. The key is stay busy or entertained enough so that you don't think about it. Thinking about it is like the worst thing you can do. Mike, the purveyor of this fine website, talks about finding your hidden talent or interest. Keep an open mind - you never know when you'll discover what it is that you were meant to do. For me, that's been airplanes. I never much thought about them til I started working on them. They've absolutely captured my imagination! For example, there's 2 really nice old wrinkled people at my parent's church, a man and a women. He was a p-47 fighter pilot and she was a member of WAF (women's air force - they delivered planes across the atlantic). They were 17, 18, 20 years old at the time. An amazing contrast - you would never guess they did those things. Real life is so much more interesting than drugs!

Advice? OK. - Sounds like you haven't been taking very much for very long. Your problem and concerns ARE very valid, and it it will be easier to overcome this since it hasn't been years and you weren't taking 80 mg a day. - Stopping stimulants isn't bad for your heart, staying on them is. Don't do any strenuous exercise for a few days after the last pill. After that, exercise is one of the best things you can do. - It doesn't sound like your dependent or addicted per se, you're just having come downs. If you said you did coke (I used to quite a bit), and X (never did), then you know about crashes. - Amphetamines are IMHO way more habit forming than coke or lots of other things b/c they weasel into your whole life, and you can be quite functional with them. They mess with the chemicals in your brain so that you become emotionally convinced that they really are helping, that you're not addicted, that you can quit anytime. At the same time, you can logically see how they're harming you. Bad psychology. - You might want to consider changing some friends. If you have people in you life for no other reason except that you drink or smoke pot with them, then those aren't friends. - Adderall is a schedule 2 drug. You can get in a serious amount of trouble for having them without a script. If you're 18, then a felony is forever. - Don't isolate when you stop. Make your bed everyday, even if you don't feel like it. Join a group at school and hang around with people who don't even talk about pills or drugs. You won't think about it so much. - In a month or two, you should be really no worse for it. Just don't take them ever again, and ignore the memories about how much you like them. That's your brain lying to you. Hope it helps a bit.

CosmiKitten, Yeah, Desoxyn has actually been on the market for decades. Adderall, Dexedrine, and Desoxyn (meth), are pretty much all the same, and that's the crappy part. I wish that I had known just what Adderall was when I started taking it. I didn't know how much it would change me.

about to finish day 16. I didn't think I'd feel this good this fast. Staying busy so I don't think about it helps a lot. I keep the first couple days in my near memory. I thought my whole world was ending - like I really believed I'd never be able to be happy.

Mike, I realize you have covered a lot of the relapse psychology with your article, "Top 5 things that will make you want to take a pill". Boundary elasticity was an excellent description of how we can "exercise" and grow our self control. I also like the article(s) where you describe what Adderall is, what it makes you feel like..... I laughed hard at the parts where you talk about enhancing your buzz with sugary drinks etc., and then go on to say something like: OR you could not act like a tool and find a healthy way..... You're right. The crappy way to go is the quit, relapse, quit again, cycle. Lines up just perfectly with the binge/crash cycle that some Adderall users (been there) wind up on. A truly miserable existence. Some background, personal, and relating to amp withdrawal. I went to engineering school at a nice public uni, so I got some science training, but I'm not a doctor. I'm not a chemist either, though my education had a lot of that in it. For anyone who thinks it's interesting, here's some off-the-cuff chem info relating to amphetamines, which may currently have you (the reader) bent over the barrel. Or did. Good for you, former Adderallic! ---Blither warning!!!----- 1. Amphetamine is an abbreviation for blah-blah-blah-amine. Amine is a type of chemical structure. So is a methyl group, hence methyl-blah-blah-blah-amine = methamphetamine. 2. Plain amphetamine is racemic. Racemic means that it has an equal # of left and right hand molecules. A molecule and it's mirror image are called isomers. Some molecules don't have isomers, like water. Most molecules theoretically do. Imagine holding your left hand up to a mirror. You see your right hand. Isomers. 2a.) So in plain amphetamine, we have levo-amphetamine and dextro-amphetamine, mirror images of each other. Adderall is made of 4 salts of both of these. Dexedrine is a salt of only the dextro. levo-amphetamine activates the adrenal system more strongly, whereas dextro-amphetamine preferentially activates the dopamine system. Both stimulate both systems, just in different degrees. 2b.) For some reason, the brain processes isomers of some chemicals differently. Maybe has to do with the way the receptors for the natural chemicals that are supposed to go there are shaped. 2c.) So, it makes sense, and is my experience, that Adderall withdrawal has a stronger/longer fatigue and appetite component, whereas Dexedrine has a stronger/longer psychological or brain-chemical component. Both have both, and we all know that it's really, um, "distateful", to quit these drugs. 3. Interestingly, meth is the least physically stimulating, though it reaches the brain faster. It is also the most potent amphetamine, and resists breakdown by the body the longest. We build tolerance to the dopamine/serotonin effects much quicker than the adrenal effects. I'm guessing this is why former meth users will talk of injecting 1000mg/day, when I can't fathom ever downing that much Adderall or Dex in a day. 3a.) I believe the relative potency goes something like 5 meth = 10 dex = 17 Adderall. I've read that in a clinical setting with experienced subjects, most can't reliably tell the difference between equivalent doses. 3b.) The isomer of the abused form of meth is not psychoactive at all, and is in some Vicks' products. 4. I think there is one MINOR thing to keep in the way back of your former Adderall soaked brains. It is that, as people who have acquired a taste for amphetamines, we're all "primed" for meth use. We have a rough idea of what it's like. Luckily, it's not a demographic we Adderallics regularly overlap with.

I posted at the end of one of Mike's articles. I'll say it again, I love this site!!! I've got 8 days off of IR Dexedrine, and the information from this website has been very valuable in helping me understand what I'm going through and what I can expect. This is an Adderall site, but many people prescribed Adderall have or could be on Dexedrine. The chemical, dextroamphetamine, makes up like 1/4 of Adderall or something. Roughly comparable. Enough about that. If someone wants my subjective comparison, I'll toss it out there. I've been on one or the other for 2.5 years. The acute withdrawal was miserable. The hard days were 3 - 6. I don't know if it helps anyone feel better, but some time ago, I quit a 45mg/day oxycodone (what's in Oxycontin) habit w/out a taper or anything. I guess it depends on the person, but amphetamine WD sucks way much more than opiate WD, in my opinion. The psychological pain is just so intense and long lasting, as I'm sure you all know. This stuff doesn't let go easily. Good: A week out, my sleep patterns and appetite have normalized. I laugh. I give a turd about things other people say or feel. I feel healthier already. I few extra pounds can be dealt with later. Bad: The boredom, depression, and "malaise" continue, and probably will for some time from what I've learned here. The "tics" persist. Knowing that it's a slow process helps. Reading Mike's stuff lets me know that it'll keep getting better. I let myself eat (could NOT get full) and sleep as much as I felt for the first week. I love the description of the typical Adderall user. Spot on. I wonder if some article about (re)lapses would be helpful? Seems to part of the territory with amphetamine recovery, more so than other substances. Getting off is easy - it's the staying off that's so tough. Dealing with the long term cravings is the bitch in my view. I find it helpful to tell myself: "I MAY not ever feel that good again, but I NEVER have to feel that misery again." and "This garbage has tricked my brain on some primal level, it's not real. I can live without it, like pretty much everyone else does." I've used all the rationalizations to justify using the pills again, and I know how it ends. Worse than the last time, every time.