8 days and doing pretty well!

[Jonny5]

I posted at the end of one of Mike's articles. I'll say it again, I love this site!!!

I've got 8 days off of IR Dexedrine, and the information from this website has been very valuable in helping me understand what I'm going through and what I can expect. This is an Adderall site, but many people prescribed Adderall have or could be on Dexedrine. The chemical, dextroamphetamine, makes up like 1/4 of Adderall or something. Roughly comparable. Enough about that. If someone wants my subjective comparison, I'll toss it out there. I've been on one or the other for 2.5 years.

The acute withdrawal was miserable. The hard days were 3 - 6. I don't know if it helps anyone feel better, but some time ago, I quit a 45mg/day oxycodone (what's in Oxycontin) habit w/out a taper or anything. I guess it depends on the person, but amphetamine WD sucks way much more than opiate WD, in my opinion. The psychological pain is just so intense and long lasting, as I'm sure you all know. This stuff doesn't let go easily.

Good: A week out, my sleep patterns and appetite have normalized. I laugh. I give a turd about things other people say or feel. I feel healthier already. I few extra pounds can be dealt with later.

Bad: The boredom, depression, and "malaise" continue, and probably will for some time from what I've learned here. The "tics" persist. Knowing that it's a slow process helps. Reading Mike's stuff lets me know that it'll keep getting better. I let myself eat (could NOT get full) and sleep as much as I felt for the first week.

I love the description of the typical Adderall user. Spot on.

I wonder if some article about (re)lapses would be helpful? Seems to part of the territory with amphetamine recovery, more so than other substances. Getting off is easy - it's the staying off that's so tough. Dealing with the long term cravings is the bitch in my view. I find it helpful to tell myself: "I MAY not ever feel that good again, but I NEVER have to feel that misery again." and "This garbage has tricked my brain on some primal level, it's not real. I can live without it, like pretty much everyone else does."

I've used all the rationalizations to justify using the pills again, and I know how it ends. Worse than the last time, every time.

[Mike]

Hey Jonny5,

First off, LOVE your username. Number five is alive! Ahh...good times. Too bad they're going to butcher the memory with a remake.

Congrats on 8 days! Not a bad idea about the article on relapses. I may attempt one at some point, but I never did relapse on Adderall. I've relapsed on other things, but only when my dedication to quitting the thing was shaky.

The damage that a relapse does depends on the length of the relapse. A short relapse can be recoverable if you're feeling guilty and thinking about quitting the whole time, because even though you relapsed you never really stepped off your quitting track in your brain. This is the relapse when you say "I'll just take one", then give in, feel guilty afterwards, and feel all the stronger about quitting two days later. The solution to this is to ignore the short relapse as a fluke and go one with your quitting with extra commitment.

The dangerous relapse is the one where you give up on quitting temporarily, then quit again, the give up on quitting...all within a short time period. If you're fickle about it. If you do it for more than a few days, then quit again, then relapse again a few days later...it's going to weaken your ability to quit on the whole because you are effectively letting your boundary decay and then building it back up weakly, then letting it decay again. The cure for this to go longer than you ever have without a pill to make a stronger mental boundary against quitting. Every day off strengthens your boundary, and makes it harder to relapse.

And extremely long relapse is actually not as damaging to your quitting boundary as the shot-term quit, relapse, quit, relapse cycle. It's damaging in the sense that being on the drug has it's own kind of damage, but the next time you quit, you will be propelled by this additional damage to stick with it to a greater degree this time, and hopefully you will quit for longer and relapse for shorter each time. This is extremely unpleasant though, and is the path most lifetime addicts are on. Stay off it if you can.

Of course, the temptation to relapse never really goes away as long as you're unhappy with your life. So focus on doing the things that will produce happiness, and then you won't crave a relapse so much.

Above all, your best bet is not to give in. Stay the course. Day 1 sucks.

And those are my thoughts on relapsing.

If you've got more to add about relapsing specific to Dexedrine, please add it!

[Jonny5]

Mike,

I realize you have covered a lot of the relapse psychology with your article, "Top 5 things that will make you want to take a pill". Boundary elasticity was an excellent description of how we can "exercise" and grow our self control. I also like the article(s) where you describe what Adderall is, what it makes you feel like..... I laughed hard at the parts where you talk about enhancing your buzz with sugary drinks etc., and then go on to say something like: OR you could not act like a tool and find a healthy way.....

You're right. The crappy way to go is the quit, relapse, quit again, cycle. Lines up just perfectly with the binge/crash cycle that some Adderall users (been there) wind up on. A truly miserable existence.

Some background, personal, and relating to amp withdrawal. I went to engineering school at a nice public uni, so I got some science training, but I'm not a doctor. I'm not a chemist either, though my education had a lot of that in it.

For anyone who thinks it's interesting, here's some off-the-cuff chem info relating to amphetamines, which may currently have you (the reader) bent over the barrel. Or did. Good for you, former Adderallic!

---Blither warning!!!-----

1. Amphetamine is an abbreviation for blah-blah-blah-amine. Amine is a type of chemical structure. So is a methyl group, hence methyl-blah-blah-blah-amine = methamphetamine.

2. Plain amphetamine is racemic. Racemic means that it has an equal # of left and right hand molecules. A molecule and it's mirror image are called isomers. Some molecules don't have isomers, like water. Most molecules theoretically do. Imagine holding your left hand up to a mirror. You see your right hand. Isomers.

2a.) So in plain amphetamine, we have levo-amphetamine and dextro-amphetamine, mirror images of each other. Adderall is made of 4 salts of both of these. Dexedrine is a salt of only the dextro. levo-amphetamine activates the adrenal system more strongly, whereas dextro-amphetamine preferentially activates the dopamine system. Both stimulate both systems, just in different degrees.

2b.) For some reason, the brain processes isomers of some chemicals differently. Maybe has to do with the way the receptors for the natural chemicals that are supposed to go there are shaped.

2c.) So, it makes sense, and is my experience, that Adderall withdrawal has a stronger/longer fatigue and appetite component, whereas Dexedrine has a stronger/longer psychological or brain-chemical component. Both have both, and we all know that it's really, um, "distateful", to quit these drugs.

3. Interestingly, meth is the least physically stimulating, though it reaches the brain faster. It is also the most potent amphetamine, and resists breakdown by the body the longest. We build tolerance to the dopamine/serotonin effects much quicker than the adrenal effects. I'm guessing this is why former meth users will talk of injecting 1000mg/day, when I can't fathom ever downing that much Adderall or Dex in a day.

3a.) I believe the relative potency goes something like 5 meth = 10 dex = 17 Adderall. I've read that in a clinical setting with experienced subjects, most can't reliably tell the difference between equivalent doses.

3b.) The isomer of the abused form of meth is not psychoactive at all, and is in some Vicks' products.

4. I think there is one MINOR thing to keep in the way back of your former Adderall soaked brains. It is that, as people who have acquired a taste for amphetamines, we're all "primed" for meth use. We have a rough idea of what it's like. Luckily, it's not a demographic we Adderallics regularly overlap with.

[Jonny5]

about to finish day 16. I didn't think I'd feel this good this fast. Staying busy so I don't think about it helps a lot. I keep the first couple days in my near memory. I thought my whole world was ending - like I really believed I'd never be able to be happy.

[Mike]

Yay! Glad it's going well. Keep at it!

[CosmiKitten]

Did you know that they have meth in prescription form for ADD now? Its called desoxyn and I guess a generic will be out soon also I can't believe they give this stuff to children, I am scared for the world.

I've used all the rationalizations to justify using the pills again, and I know how it ends. Worse than the last time, every time.

Found this one on a drug recovery website:

"Justification and rationalization leads to masturbation because you're just screwing yourself!"

Congrats on being adderall free!

[CosmiKitten]

(or stimulant free rather. Its all the same malarky!)

[Jonny5]

CosmiKitten,

Yeah, Desoxyn has actually been on the market for decades. Adderall, Dexedrine, and Desoxyn (meth), are pretty much all the same, and that's the crappy part. I wish that I had known just what Adderall was when I started taking it. I didn't know how much it would change me.