[Feeling good and very lucky.]

How long have you been free?

[I fell again, hard. This invisible demon is torturing me.]

11 hours ago, Danquit said:

Adderall has a way of getting into your brain and living your life for you, kind of like that movie “Get Out”.

I never thought of that.  It is really scary how true this statement is.

[I fell again, hard. This invisible demon is torturing me.]

On 5/16/2018 at 1:43 PM, sleepystupid said:

regarding negative patterns of behavior, i'm of the belief that they exist because we are trying to compensate for some deficiency we perceive in ourselves. it's easy enough to identify during recovery: i'm a lazy shitheel and don't enjoy anything.  if this is the only thing leading you back to using, then the answer is simply "give yourself time". but it may be helpful to ask "why did i get addicted in the first place?". i've used plenty of other drugs in the past- never got addicted. plenty of people are able to use adderall recreationally- don't get addicted.

THIS!!!!!  So much this!!!!

I definitely most strongly experience my personal deficiencies head on when going through withdrawal, and general fears pile up on top of each other - not to mention I become a lot more emotional and sensitive as a person (which is a double edged sword because I feel very vulnerable and easily hurt). 

A few years ago, I've quit cigarettes after 10 years of smoking, and that addiction was super challenging to kick, but it was a very different type of addiction.  That addiction was literally a stupid crutch I got used to and associated with everything I did and experienced (literally everything).  It had no effect on my internal motivation or willpower, it was simply a matter of a decision.  It was not easy in any sense though, I will tell you that.

But Adderall oh boy, I feel like it basically replaces my base vitality and inner drive (or more like "holds it ransom").  It is so much more powerful than nicotine, it is almost as if I feel like it is changing who I am.  Like yeah I understand that initially I will feel demotivated but how do I get back my inner fire???  Every time I've quit, I do not remember whether or not I experienced inner fire, I felt inner torment though so that is a type of fire.

And ironically, because it is a drug that is so controlled and restricted, I feel a greater need to have it around "just in case".  I can't just run to the store and pick up Adderall,  And there ARE two scenarios where I do 100% justify its use:

1) No sleep or poor sleep - and I must get a ton of important work done today, it is urgent and important and cannot wait until tomorrow.  (happens maybe 3 times a year)

2) Safety - I've gotta drive throughout the night for whatever reason and coffee just won't cut it.  (could happen in regional evacuation scenarios)

Problem is, I know me.  Those two scenarios for just in case is what makes me feel not guilty having a full bottle of the stuff near me. 

Someone told me once that the "most dangerous drug" is the drug you love.

 

On 5/16/2018 at 1:43 PM, sleepystupid said:

i hated myself for it. and then came adderall. it made me feel great about myself. fuck yea. i can totally do this, AND take on a Master's program AND make my parents proud of me, AND, AND.. 

How did this end?  Did Adderall push you through it all?

Music is amazing, I love music.

[How do you fix the life Adderall broke?]

On 4/17/2018 at 11:13 PM, Greg said:

Adderall broke everything in my life and there were quite a few things for me to fix. The first thing I focused on was sobriety at all costs. I also worked on getting over the incredible psychological dependency I had on it. It felt like I had to relearn how to do everything without relying on an Adderall to do it. I also had to get back into the workforce as Adderall had caused me to get fired from my job and I had built up a huge gap on my resume. I decided to go back to school to be in an environment that would set me up to go back into the workforce. I chose a school in Florida right by the beaches so I'd be in an extremely low pressure environment. Learning to study for exams and write papers etc without Adderall was an invaluable experience. Then I took a graduate assistant job in one of the departments (just answering phones, faxing and making photocopies). That gave me a lot more confidence I could handle working again without Adderall . Then I worked on explaining to friends and family that I had hurt and who saw me go down the drain what happened to me - I explained to them the mechanics of addiction and how it caused my neurotransmitters to get messed up so they could at least understand what happened to me. Eventually I started living a normal life again, had regained much more confidence in myself and regained more of friend and familys confidence in me. At the same time the physical after effects of PAWS kept dwindling away and there were less and less days where I felt horrible from my brain trying to recalibrate itself from not having the drug. 

Now that things are back to normal again, I always keep myself aware that if I take a single pill everything can come crashing down. That fear of losing everything I've rebuilt prevents me from ever considering taking it again. 

How long have you been sober and clean now?  Is everything back to normal?

[I fell again, hard. This invisible demon is torturing me.]

On 5/14/2018 at 10:34 AM, sleepystupid said:

regarding "free will"- you absolutely have it. isn't choosing to do something, even though you know you shouldn't, an exercising of free will? you are choosing to continue using. you're right in that choices are made at the micro level, but negative patterns of behavior develop from a lack of discipline. i'm not saying that it's easy to be disciplined.. simply that disbelieving free will is a defeatist position.

Yes, I am choosing it.  But (and this is sort of a philosophical question) I keep on wondering why I tend to always choose the same things, at least thus far.  I am not making a claim that I have no free will or control, I am simply expressing my disheartened meta observance on my own patterns of behavior that they repeat themselves in an almost identical fashion over and over and over, year after year - like for example I quit completely and then go back almost in the same fashion every time, then I take it like crazy every time until I am so sick of myself doing it and then quit again, on repeat for the last 3 years.  So yes, I definitely AM choosing in the moment - but I question whether or not I am really choosing or something else (and idk what "that" might be) is choosing for me. 

I am basically experiencing feelings of doubt, not concrete defeat and I have definitely not given up.  But these doubts about myself in general are very disturbing to me, because it feels like this will go on forever like 3 months on 3 months off (or whatever but the patterns repeat). 

And I feel horrible expressing this, especially on this forum because no doubt others are experiencing the same or much worse and I have no intention of causing doubt in others.  This is related to myself personally, and I hope my doubts are completely wrong.  I just feel a bit controlled by something that is not exactly "me", and that is terrifying.

[I fell again, hard. This invisible demon is torturing me.]

Yes, actually you are right.  The process itself was nice, and actually we did hang out a few more times until we split because we actually weren't very compatible personality-wise.  I personally would rather my motivation to stem from my inner drive and not due to a person I am interested in, as that can be temporary and is a very shaky foundation to depend on. 

Thank you.  What you wrote did help me to put things into perspective.

[Anyone try Qualia?!]

That's interesting, I am curious how much of it is a real effect and how much is a placebo.  I have no idea either way, I wish there was a way to tell.  Bottom line it seems to work for you with no ill effects and you could afford it, so why not? 

 

[I fell again, hard. This invisible demon is torturing me.]

I was doing so well for a while.  About 3 months, something like that.  Well sort of well, I was taking Sudafed every once in a while and sometimes often to compensate for occasional lacks of energy and wakefulness, more often than needed though.  I don't know how "well" it's considered if I am copping out with something else, if I even ever left my addiction or just pretended to leave it.  I went back to Adderall in the end.  Probably was still feeding my addiction by taking the Sudafed, who knows.  Probably.  Most likely.  Psychologically, for sure no doubt.  But it gave me some release, some ability to cope.  I didn't feel the narcotic effect, just general wakefulness, that's all. 

Anyways, I started taking again about a month ago.  And of course I jump right back into it right where I left off, as if I never took a break.

I find my sweet spot, my sweet environment, my sweet habits, my sweet slavery - at the price of everything else.   It fends off general dissatisfaction with myself by helping me enter a sweet spot, an illusion.  It's a sweet spot that I have certain terrible habits in, but I feel good in.  But I also become an asshole.  I get too focused and obsessed with things I shouldn't.

I ruined a budding connection last night.  I went on 3 dates in the past week with a girl I really liked, all off of Adderall.  I did terrific.  Connection was being built.  I invested myself and applied myself and felt real happiness doing something real, at least I believe so.  Things also started getting sexual a couple nights ago in our last date, not all the way but it entered that realm and it entered it very naturally as we were making out at the beach while it was raining.  We got soaking wet while passionately making out.  It was real.  It was going great.  Yesterday I took Adderall to help catch up on some work and I also continued chatting with her on WhatsApp, and this is where I fell.  I became too hyperfocused and obsessed, I kept on repeating concepts and revisiting certain topics, it turned her off.  I could have disengaged on several instances from the conversation and just waited until tomorrow (i.e. today), which would have potentially saved it despite me being a hyper obsessed fuckboy, but of course I didn't do that; and I just had to push, of course I had to push.  And push I did.  Something was making me "hunt and go for the kill", so to speak.  I can't even seem to think about the other person, I just hunt, that's it.  I must satisfy that one "sweet spot".  And when she gets mad at me for being an ass, I become a bigger ass, removing any personal responsibility over something that is 100% my own fault and completely preventable.  Great way to ruin the passion and any remaining implicit romance, congratulations to myself.  I am an idiot.

The above story isn't the first time this sort of thing happened.  But it's the most recent, and it feels the worst that I recall - because I invested so much in it.  I worked on the connection like never before.  I wanted a REAL connection, so I went against my nature and accepted the fact that delayed gratification is part of the game, for anything real.  I did well.

Being completely without Adderall though, that feels bland.  Life is boring.  I am boring.  It feels that way.  Stupid mundane torture.  Day in and day out, and I am getting older not getting any younger.  If there is no point and I can't seem to be building myself, maybe at least I can enjoy my days?  That's where Adderall comes in.  Hello bandaid.  Why live with open wounds?

But then I cover them up with Adderall bandaids, and it makes me ill in my head.  I feel fucked without it, and I feel fucked with it. 

I don't even know where I am going with this.  I honestly despise myself right now, I would even go as far to say I hate myself.  I am beginning to doubt whether I have free will or not.  I mean yeah on a micro level I do, meaning individual days - at least I think I do.  But on a macro level, I have the same exact patterns of behavior that do not seem to change, even if I think they are.  Things that take time to build, get ruined in literally moments. 

I am frightened.  I feel trapped. What is the end game here for me?  This is an invisible demon that I cannot seem to tackle or get rid of, and this demon always seems to be in control even when not present.  Even without Adderall my life doesn't seem to get much better, days feel stupid and pointless and pass really fast.  I feel stupid, I am not stupid though.  I am smart person, I am intelligent.  But I seem to lose my faculties, and something replaces me.  When it doesn't replace me, it makes sure that I am well aware of how bland I am and how bland my days are, and how I am still alone and living in illusions that the future gets better.  Time depresses me, I currently only see a future of a middle aged lonely man who did nothing with his life, completely alone and with nothing.  This is the image I have of myself right now, and it's the image I have in the back of my head when I am sober but I suppress it with workouts and music and fantasizing of the future, always in the future my mind is.  And this neverending image of myself gets relieved by my momentary sweet spots, slightly less torture only to be returned by slightly bad habits which in turn reinforce the very negative image of myself that exists with or without Adderall.  Fuck me.

This is like navigating a maze completely blind without being aware that you are even blind and the only way to exit the maze is to read the escape instructions that I can't even read and every new corner I turn appears to be progress only to bump in another wall trapped again. 

[Delayed withdrawal, coping mechanisms?]

This may sound really odd, but ever since I had my last ingestion of Adderall (December 4th, 2017 OMFG it's been 6 weeks!!!) the first month was actually a breeze!!  After the first 4-5 days which were just like BLAH DAYS (literally just "existing" no desire to do shit), my moods and physical well-being IMPROVED drastically and quickly!!!  I was like "yay I am totally FREE!!!" and I felt so liberated on cloud 9 etc, even having very positive interactions with people I did not expect. 

However, in the last 2 weeks or so I have been feeling off, completely off.  I have had more than one interaction which made me think "damn, if only I was on Adderall this would go better", which is a DANGEROUS thought to have and made me feel HORRIBLE about myself and filled me with self-doubt.  On top of that, negative emotions and general states of energy depletion have increased.  I have had SEVERAL negative social interactions in the past couple of weeks, and the negative emotions I have been feeling have been really fucking intense.  In response to the energy depletion states as well as the general "downed mood", I have been taking some Sudafed which appears to help on the days I take it, making me awake and alert and even in an elevated mood but without the narcotic effects of Adderall.  The Sudafed also makes my workouts intense, really intense!!  I know that this is no long term solution, and it might be making it worse, I do not know.

But either way regardless, I feel like I am going through withdrawal NOW, my questions are 1) "What the hell?!"  -and- 2) "WHY?!"....

Does this happen to anyone else?  Is this normal???????????

I will tell you something, one of my BIGGEST challenges in life ever always was (and still is) overcoming my emotions and mental states, i.e. choosing to do something despite not feeling like it or have a clashing mental state.  I DO NOT WANT TO BE A SLAVE TO MY EMOTIONS AND MENTAL STATES!!!  I CAN DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I am listening to this audiobook called "48 Laws of Power" and honestly it's purely a guidebook for psychopaths and to take advantage of people etc, which I have no intention of doing although this book is super interesting and I think it has some incredible life lessons in it in general, BUUUUTT one of the first things the author mentions is that the first step is to control your emotions, otherwise you literally cannot apply the laws.  And I was thinking "HOLY SHIT THAT'S LITERALLY MY BIGGEST LIFE CHALLENGE CONTROLLING MY EMOTIONS".

So while I am indeed being a bit tormented over the past two weeks, and I am feeling a bit frightened because I had several negative social interactions with some people, I am afraid that things will get worse and I am afraid that this weekend (where I will meet some new coworkers and spend all day with them) things will be bad because I had some bad interactions in the past few weeks, despite it being completely separate and I should have SOME control of what I exhibit and act like despite the way I may feel or not feel inside?????????????

I can do this.  If anybody has gone through this "delayed withdrawal" experience, I'd love to hear that I am not alone, and even if I am that's fine, at least maybe give me some advice?  Even if no advice, that's fine I still love you all, I just wanted to vent and unleash my mind and emotions out so it doesn't stay all bundled up inside waiting to explode in one huge nuclear bomb of emotions.  THANK YOU!!!!!!

[My first post here, I need to be free.]

Wow thank you all so much for your responses!!  I really feel a lot better that I am not alone in my process, and I am honestly positively shocked (in a really good way) that others here have habitually been binging on much higher doses for much longer than me and they got through it.

Today I am on my 5th day, completely clean.  The longest streak I have done so far in the past 5-6 months.  I have been sleeping much better and had longer lasting energy plateaus throughout the day, yesterday I totally destroyed myself in the gym haha, I was able to just keep on going.  It feels great!  I feel a lot more stable mentally and emotionally.  I feel a lot more in control of myself, like I can manage tiredness a lot better and can manage various states of mind instead of succumbing to the momentary emotion.  I am the captain of this ship!

However, I am also feeling bouts of negative thoughts here and there, and I am simply not enjoying sex like I've become accustomed to while on Adderall.  I don't care.  Well, I do care but I realize it's not what is important.  I reached the conclusion long ago that instant sexual gratification is not worth sacrificing my entire future, because honestly I would just spend hours (not even kidding, literally from like 4 pm until 2 am, nearly every day) just chatting girls up on Tinder etc.  I hated myself for wasting so much time every day on stupid shit like that because I felt constantly "on the hunt" for that perfect orgasm!  I hope it's okay for me to share this aspect, and that it's appropriate, because it's a MAJOR component of what made me (and kept me) addicted...  I would say at least 60% of the reason I constantly took it was that.  Without the sexual perceived benefit, I'd only take it once in a while when I really "needed" it (not very often at all).

I can't just repeat these empty days hyperfocused on all that, I do not even want it right now it lost its appeal (for obvious reasons).  But now I do not know what to do with all this free time on my hands.  I need to find a new hobby or/and a new job, something to get me off my ass because now I am waking up from this slavery ridden dream. 

Ah that feels good to let out.  Thank you all for being awesome and clean and free. 

[My first post here, I need to be free.]

I was never diagnosed with a learning disorder.  I have been on Adderall for about 3 years, consistently (before that it was just once in a while).  All my choice.  I am in my late twenties. 

I have had several "attempts" to quit.  The longest attempt lasted 3 months about one year ago.  My consistency has really increased in the last months.  Officially I am prescribed 20 mg IR a day, but I use it like 2-3 in one day then stop for a couple days and back again.  Other times a few days in a row at that dosage.  Basically, abusing it. 

I personally have used it for sexual activities, because it makes my mental arousal so much more intense.

The longest I have gone without it in the last 6 months was about 3 days.  In the past two months, even in those three days my withdrawal symptoms were much more noticeable and harder to deal with: tight headaches (around forehead, back of head, temples), pressure behind eyes, a head in the sky feeling, completely dead sex drive, sadness, irritability, etc.  And most of all, nearly every single time I said I wouldn't take it, I did.  Sometimes just to relieve the pain.

I tried tapering down, like 15 times (at least).  Did not work.  Was never able to stick with the lower dosage.

I have quit cigarettes about 5 years ago, and the way I did it was cold turkey.  The only way that worked.  I am thinking this is the only way here too.

But given that I have been really abusing this shit, is there any danger in going cold turkey?  I never reached this stage before in Adderall addiction.  Anything I should look out for?

I have finished my supply today, which incidentally was my "emergency supply" that was supposed to last me until the end of the week cause I said I will at least hold off until Friday, today is Monday (only had a little left). 

I want my mind back.  This is taking my inner spirit out.  My inner fire.  I feel like a zombie, occasionally animated.  I need to stop.  My supply is done. 

I have been lurking this site for the last year.  I am ready. 

I don't know what else to write, I think I'll just leave it at that.