Greg
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Posts posted by Greg
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Hey Bearman,
I was also on those insanely high dosages you described in your post and I was able to get clean and do alright so know its possible. I also bought a safe once to protect my adderall from getting stolen from invisible enemies...The things it makes us do.
You may be a mess right now, but trust me, as long as you quit this stuff youll be okay.
The suicidal thoughts are just thoughts, adderall addiction created thoughts, I felt them too when coming to grips with quitting, they'll pass as you begin to heal and settle into your post adderall life. I wouldnt expect to be very rational emotionally when coming to grips with the addiction. Thats all part of the healing process.
I agree with Ashley,
..at first it seems totally IMPOSSIBLE. but its not. A lot of us here have been able to do this.
..and coming back to this site has been instrumental to staying clean and adderall free. Finding people and getting support from those who understand the struggle of what you are going through is such a relief.
Hang in there! And keep posting. You got to really want this and to be very serious about this. And if you have that within you - you can do this.
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Hey geodude,
yeahh... it is definitely recovery from hell. What I have learned from my addiction is that getting off adderall is a huge, huge, huge mental battle/stuggle. But staying dependent on this drug will destroy you...
I haven't heard of taking TUMS with adderall xr to boost the effects of adderall...I have heard of mixing adderall with water and injecting it to boost absorption which I'd done maybe once before. Also, obviously chewing, crushing and snorting it makes it absorb faster into the bloodstream and intensifies the rush.
If you are successfully ingesting adderall in a way to boost its effects, its going to increase the chances of psychosis (for sure!!) and all the symptoms you mentioned...especially the longer you do that for.
I'm assuming you got dependent on the drug and then started toying around with it to boost its effects. I think what happened to you, is your brain probably adapted to the increase in dopamine from the pills. When You stopped taking adderall, you were no longer producing dopamine as efficiently as before. And you also lost that surplus of dopamine you were getting to your brain via the adderall. The side effects of withdrawal are a large part your body's reaction to this. And it will take a while to readjust.
You are already getting to a better place mentally by stopping the adderall. And you have to learn to deal with life the normal, healthy way again.
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The electrocution thing is really bizarre! I am still getting electrocuted but the impulses are weaker now. What a bizarre withdrawal side effect.
You're right though effexor withdrawal is wonderful compared to adderall withdrawal...I probably should have tapered off effexor so it wasn't like a total shock (no pun intended) to my body..cold turkey wasnt really necessary, but now I might as well just finish what I started..
Adderall though I agree had to be stopped cold turkey. I didn't have any control when it came to adderall. The only way I could get out of that mess was to get off of it cold turkey - and then deal with it.
it's really good to see you clean. you too, hang in there!
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I think I spoke to soon. It's not addictive like adderall or anything like that but maybe I shouldn't have gone completely cold turkey off of an antidepressant. Getting off effexor has not been a walk in the park (its been worth it, but not a walk in the park). The first week was really, really easy.
Then week 2 - I started getting specific to effexor withdrawal problems - insomnia, impulses/shocks and joint pain.
Two days ago I was shivering under a blanket and in a total daze. Today I am ok.
I suppose that's what happens when you mess with all the chemicals in your head?? I think in a couple days i should be fine. I don't expect it to last too much longer..??
And when its over, it will be back to just regular adderall PAWS..,lol
(I wonder if Effexor was helping with my PAWS??) But, you know.. I still think taking pills as a solution is a terrible way to deal with things. And that the longer on them the more it weakens our ability to deal with stuff on our own...whether its anxiety, or pain or tiredness or whatever...
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Congratulations quit-once!!!!! What a milestone, Pop the champagne.
I remember when we first crossed paths many months ago on this site and had that really long conversation via back and forth posts. (I think it was 30 or so really long posts back and forth) And we are both still clean. You are always the voice of reason when reason goes out the window.
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I've been on wellbutrin -- i just think the "pill free mentality" is a good one to adopt for anyone recovering from adderall...pill popping is what got us here...
I am not really one to speak though as I've been on effexor since quitting until maybe a week ago...
Just for me, these antidepressant pills haven't really done anything...
Not living the life of a hopeless/frustrated addict is honestly the best cure-all for stuff like depression
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Hey Newboy,
I've been off of Effexor for a short while now. To be honest, I felt like it was a zero factor for me. I feel pretty much the same as before. It was not addictive or anything. It has been easy to get off of it.
I don't know... Perhaps for other people it's had more of an impact. I love being on nothing though. It's been years since I've been on nothing. I know for sure I won't ever be taking pills again.
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Hey Soccer2
You need it for your energy because your brain has adapted to a highly addictive chemical now...when are you going to start reversing the damage? You mentioned the fatigue. But aren't you tired of being tired on the drug? It burns out your adrenal glands. Having too much excess energy when youre not naturally supposed to...remember the times you have not been able to fall asleep (but wanted to) because you were strung out on it? (it was during those times I reached for anti-anxiety meds...and then effectively had pills to get me out of bed in the morning and pills to put me to bed at night...Only to an addict, would that kind of life make sense..) All that burns a person out. You're not going to stop feeling helpless without pills until you start to develop yourself as a person without being a pill popper.
I have mentioned my story a couple of times on the forums now, but if you hadn't read my other postings, at one point I was getting three different prescriptions a month and that wasn't even lasting me the entire month so I found a supplier to send me enough for the days when those prescriptions ran out. You can pretty much guess where that kind of prescription pill habit took me. This crap was my entire world no matter how much I lied to myself, or tricked myself into thinking life was fine. I am 18 months clean now. It's possible.
You got to PUSH yourself (your future depends on this), to get off the meds and through the withdrawal period and know it will come to an end. It's really hard work. People are really, really desperate (that's how rehab centers can charge $2000 a day and people are willing to pay for it). So to get clean it means staying motivated...it means getting as much support as you can. It means getting your thoughts out, sharing...seeing what others think, educating yourself about what has happened to you and why you can't let go of these pills (and begin working to reverse all the damage done to your brain) and being smart enough to make this the most important thing in your life.
For what it's worth, I read somewhere that when a person relapses...each time they relapse but then try again they have a higher chance of success. What is causing you to relapse? is it the withdrawal?
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It makes me sick too. I think ADHD is definitely manufactured to sell pills...
I really thought I had ADHD when I first started taking ritalin..becuase I had trouble focusing and I got bored when I was doing something boring or sometimes I was disorganized.. or I'd get distracted when I was reading or whatever...EVERYBODY has those problems. Those are regular human problems. That doesn't mean everybody also has an attention disease called ADHD and needs pills to treat a disease.
Looking back..I am rolling my eyes at myself..i remember being really gung ho about having ADD like on ADDforums.....(it's the site quit-once pointed out which is a site I find highly entertaining)
Anyway, This tragic article goes into the debate over whether adhd is invented by drug companies..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2002856/Harry-Hucknall-10-killed-taking-Ritalin.html
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Hey Kathleen, thanks! I have read a lot of your posts too. It's great to know you are clean and you have a great mindset about going forward. We'll all get through this.
I was exercising a lot recently and it definitely helps. But I haven't been consistent about it...Probably should be doing more.
Also, I'm at 18 months clean now.(yay!) & I pray for everyone that their withdrawal process goes quicker than mine...
By the way, I found this source helpful on understanding PAWS. This guy wrote a book about addiction recovery and he talks about PAWS on this webpage...I only read the part on his site about PAWS but it seems like he's put together a really good comprehensive website on addiction and recovery in general.Here is a good link to a youtube video explanation about it
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I had no clue what PAWS was before Cassie mentioned it but since have been reading a lot about it and it has been really helpful.
PAWS is actually called Post "Acute" Withdrawal Syndrome but after I read a bunch of webpages on PAWS I have re-nicknamed this Post-"Adderall" Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS) because I felt it so accurately described adderall withdrawal, and how it manifests itself...at least what ive been going through and in how I've been experiencing adderall withdrawal since quitting...After quitting, PAWS was like, a new part of my life that I have had to get used to and know and eventually become very familiar with.
When I was reading about PAWS, right away, I saw that I was reading about myself...in terms of how adderall withdrawal has taken its toll on me since I quit.
I still have have good days and bad days. The bad days are more intermittent now. But I still have bad days (like yesterday...yesterday was a really bad day!! in general the week has been full of bad withdrawal days). My withdrawal episodes have come at random and with seemingly no rhyme or reason And I get really frustrated about it. Especially if I've been feeling pretty ok for a stretch of time. (although being tired will definitely increase chances of a strong bout of PAWS)
Some notes I jotted down -
- Withdrawal symptoms persist after quitting because of disturbances in neurotransmitters and need to restore balance
- Brains ability to react to stress has been weakened
- Nicknamed PAWS of Death
- PAWS dissipates over time!! (Good stretches get longer and longer)
- Know not to overreact to it!!!
- Withdrawals go from more frequent to less frequent over time...
- Withdrawal episodes come and go in a wave like pattern...work to gain confidence it will lift
- get shorter in duration...and more intermittent over time
And last but not least...(k, where's the drumroll??)
- PAWS will eventually come to an end!!!!
This was the best news from my research. Just knowing that there are all these people who have studied it, researched it and written about it and that they all have come to the consensus that it eventually comes to an end...and that there will be a day for me when a general feeling of withdrawal or when stronger withdrawal episodes are not just more intermittent and shorter in duration but completely gone altogether..made me feel really positive about this! I think of the day my withdrawal symptoms will come to an end altogether as the day my adderall 'jail sentence' comes to an end. It helps me to focus on the end goal.
Anyway, anyone interested in learning more about what adderall withdrawal symptoms are normal or what to expect after quitting, like Cassie, I recommend learning more about PAWS. I googled Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome and found a bunch of webpages written up about it. They webpages on PAWS were posted by different sources like addiction specialists...or addiction and rehab centers information pages etc etc.. There was also a forum board (not currently active though) on PAWS. Anyway all this made me feel a lot better.
Yesterday I had a killer attack of PAWS...And... just... in recent days I haven't been feeling too well...Yesterday I felt like my PAWS was taunting me almost, with feelings of pleasure that would come from taking stimulants again. Of course, that would never happen in a million years but it is always frustrating when my PAWS acts up...
Today though when I woke up I was feeling a lot better which was a very big relief...
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This also gave me a good laugh..
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Whittering, Don't throw away 4 1/2 months of clean time under your belt.
C'mon, It took you a lot of hardwork to earn that clean time!!
Be strong!!! 4 1/2 months is a really good chunk of time you got there.
(Cassie, that article on PAWS is really a fantastic resource.
I've read through it a couple times now. Thanks so much for posting it.... Whittering you should check that out...)
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I agree. Empathy goes out the window on adderall. It makes you focus on yourself only. It turns you into a zombie or robot or some kind of combination of the two.
And also the more addicted you get, the more preoccupied you become on how you are feeling (GREAT or horrible)- if you don't feel GREAT - it becomes hard to do anything else.
One of the biggest differences between now and before is the return of empathy.
People say I'm friendlier and more talkative and much more aware of my surroundings and my interactions with other people. Before, i would be in a conversation and then suddenly tune out and my thoughts would drift onto something i was focused and more interested on. It became hard for me to follow conversations. I didn't seem to care. I was physically present, but my mind was somewhere else.
I remember feeling really distant and lifeless but super enthusiastic about whatever pointless or mindless task I was doing. I think adderall made me enjoy things that would ordinarily seem really boring and get super excited and involved in things that now would seem like a waste of time. But it also sucked the life out of me and dehumanized me. I looked back at some pictures of myself when I was abusing I noticed that I had this look in my eyes was glazed over and kind of lifeless.
Im glad to feel alive and like a human being again now!
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Hey On That Lean,
When i was running out early and supplementing with pills I bought...I developed paranoid psychosis...and I lived in that state for a long time...and I feel ashamed about it and it impacted my career, the path my life took --- everything...I was a sick person, not myself for many years because of the dosages of adderall I could not stop myself from taking...
The path you are on gets uglier and uglier...and uglier...You will start to run out sooner and sooner, you'll get more frustrated with yourself for not being able to stop....The daily personal battle you will be fighting against this drug will be exhausting and depressing. with your prescription + extra pills that you've bought...you will start to feel nervous, depressed, anxious all the time as the pills are wearing off.....and in general youll be taking adderall to relieve yourself from the misery adderall is creating...
I hope this bleak picture of how adderall addiction runs it course convinces you to get your doctor to cut off the prescriptions...and then tell the people you're buying from that you've gotten addicted and to stop selling you pills.
I just read the novel Requiem For A Dream... In the novel, a woman devolves (to say the least) after getting hooked on Dexadrine pills. (You can tell the author was an addict because of how true to life he portrayed her amphetamine addiction and paranoid psychosis)
Here’s a quote from when the ‘honeymoon’ period of her pills comes to an end...
She didn’t feel the same like when she first started taking the pills. It was like they took something out of them. Maybe they made a mistake and gave her the wrong pills? Maybe she should get stronger ones? She called the doctors office and talked with the nurse and asked two, three, how many times, if she was sure she didn’t give her the wrong pills?
Sound familiar?
Anyway, this book was just really, really powerful.. I recommend you read this. Maybe it will help you convince yourself that this isn’t the path you want to be on...and that you are meant for a much better path in life.
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Quit Once,
us? a cult? was he referring to THIS website? HA! that has me totally cracking up!!
I have never really ventured out anywhere except ehealthforums maybe...But as soon as I found this place, and started to read Mike's articles and the forum posts, I knew I'd found the right environment for quitting adderall...(but might check out your links for entertainment)
A LOT of people consider NA like a cult (but that works).. In fact, one of its biggest criticisms suggests that it was developed to impose faith on the people who joined...You really have to believe in some form of higher power in order for the program to work...In the hundred or so meetings I attended, there was never a single meeting where a higher power was not discussed for most of the meeting..
For me, what I found has really worked for me on quitting, that I never found discussed at NA meetings or in NA literature is understanding the science behind the addiction. Reading our own forum posts and those books I included on the adderall abuse book list on the other post really helped because it made me completely aware of exactly how I got addicted and what adderall was doing to my brain, how it was altering my brain chemistry with stimulants...how I was making myself worse with each dosing..etc..etc.. I found the information I was learning really appalling which of course kept up my motivation to stay away from that stuff. I also think part of quitting successfully means to always stay highly motivated to be free from these pills...Motivation is a powerful way to fight addiction and the potential for relapse...which unfortunately so many addicts succumb to.
By the way, members, have we decided on a date for our ritual sacrifice yet???
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gjg, I'm so glad this has been helpful!! I felt really alone at first too until I came across this website and found so many people struggling with the EXACT same thing..It helps so much with recovery to know you aren't going through it all alone..
I also wanted to pass on another title that I must have read time and again in my desperation for recovery. It's the NA book. If you havent been to an NA meeting yet, I'd go check one out at least once...and at least see what it's all about... I was able to locate my local meeting locations on the NA website
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JessieM, I think every adderall addict gets to the point where they realize how miserable they are in fighting so hard to sustain their habit - and its around this time they'll begin to decide enough is enough. It's the natural course of the adderall addiction.
After reading so many opinions on SSRI's in this thread and a number of other threads in quittingadderall.com, I've decided to take the plunge and get off the effexor I've been on for the past couple years. Prior to Effexor, I was on lexapro for a number of years. And wellbutrin, too.
It is true that nothing should be on for the long term. I am not sure whether Effexor has been helping or not - I have just been taking it in case it has, like an insurance policy. And now I realize this isn't necessary.
In Effexor withdrawal, I am experiencing the 'brain shocks' that Ashley6 mentioned above - but, honestly, this is just NOTHING - NOTHING compared to the horror of adderall withdrawal! Not even going to complain about it. i'll just plow through my effexor withdrawal with a smile on my face.
Thanks for everyone's opinions!!!
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Mike, really glad to hear you are well. Was definitely wondering what happened to ya...!!!!!
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I have no doubt that adderall can cause jaw problems. I think adderall can cause a lot of jaw pain from all the teeth grinding and jaw clenching that Joanne mentioned is big side effect of amphetamines.
The amphetamines gave me serious teeth grinding and jaw clenching problems. And I still have my jaw clenching habit from when I was on adderall. Especially when i am concentrating, I have to consciously remind myself to relax my jaw.
Its gotten a lot better since I quit, (I used to grind my teeth in my sleep really badly, not as much after I quit) but still going to the dentist tomorrow to get a nightguard fitted for my mouth just for that specific jaw clenching/teeth grinding problem. Jaw clenching and teeth grinding can cause a lot of pain to radiate across the mouth and jaw area and around the temples and the neck.
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Thanks Quit-Once,
While I'm not thrilled about the exam results, I am happy I got myself to take it. Preparing for the exam has been my main post quitting project. I had a few panic attacks the week before and the week of. And I couldn't sleep the night before the test. Nor could I sleep very well in the days before. My adrenaline was pumping without any adderall.. I couldn't sleep, I was not hungry and I was fueled on adrenaline from pure nerves. My panic was fueled by reading extremely panic-y people on GMAT message boards, lol. You wouldn't believe how freaked out people get from this exam...
It was weird, like I was on adderall (but not on adderall). Only it was a miserable feeling that brought back all these memories of being awake for days, with absolutely nothing in my stomach except caffeine and cigarettes. I even had some cravings for nicotine again - suddenly one year after quitting. All I can say is that this time around, it was a terrible feeling. And I'm not sure how I could have idealized those feelings when I was on adderall, during the twelve years or so I was, I guess, you could say, enjoying feeling like that every day...
Before the exam, not once did I think about taking adderall to get me through it. I did though think about how crazy it was that I wasn't thinking about taking adderall all the time, given the stress of the whole ordeal. If I was still taking adderall, I would have been taking the stuff by the handfuls to get through each passing hour leading up to the exam. Ugh.
Well, I'm going to give it another whirl. After reading some message boards from people who got my score the first time, a lot say that it is possible for me to perhaps get the required score the second time around. I'm not really feeling too hopeful, but I guess I will give it another shot. I guess it just doesn't hurt. Thanks for the encouragement.
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I just wanted to pass along another book title. Its called Overcoming Perscription Drug Addiction.
The author's brother died from a painkiller addiction. This book is filled with stories of painkiller addicts, but these stories are so similar to adderall addicts. Any adderall addict will be able to relate 100 percent to these stories. It's also filled with a lot of advice for dealing with addiction. It's a very quick read.
Here is a link to the book
http://www.addicusbooks.com/show_title.cfm?isbn=9781886039889
And here's the first chapter.
http://www.addicusbooks.com/chapters/RXChap1-Sample-4-07-09.pdf
There is also a 24 Hour Prescription Drug Addiction Hotline which looks like it could be a great resource. I haven't called in, but if anyone does, please let us know how it is. Here is the link for it.
http://www.prescriptiondrugaddiction.com/
Again, this book is entirely about painkiller addicts, but I feel like the lessons apply to all prescription drug addicts. The withdrawal process is definitely different, I think painkiller addicts take suboxene to taper off. They also probably have less of a mental battle and more of physical battle than adderall addicts. Adderall addicts, I think, unfortunately get the worst of it in terms of struggling with the mind. But in other areas we are not as bad as other addictions.
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Cassie, I am experiencing the same job conundrum. I'm glad you brought this up. I am struggling with those same questions so its hard for me to answer any of yours. I thought once I quit adderall, my life would suddenly have a clear direction. And all these special talents would come to the surface. I would find my consuming passion and career. Well, it hasn't happened yet. But I'm still holding out hope... Away from adderall I have developed a lot of different hobbies. Also, the anhedonia has recently been getting better...I have also in recent weeks felt a sharpening of focus, less discomfort, more relaxed energy and more motivation. Adderall recovery for me has been a game of wait...feel better...wait some more...feel a little better etc...
I was supposed to start my real job hunt this week after I last week took the B-School GMAT entrance exam that I have been studying for for the past couple months. Unfortunately, I didn't get the score that I needed (huge sigh) and I was going to just give up the whole thing all together but now I have scheduled an exam retake for thirty days from now and have once again hit the books. My hopes for b-school though aren't high anymore and after my second exam attempt, I am going to try to force myself to get excited about a backup plan. But will first have to formulate some backup plans.
I wish there was some kind of guide book to picking up the pieces after quitting etc. etc. I feel kind of like I dropped out of life for a year and a half for recovery (and the couple of years before I quit as I began my cognitive mental decline aka adderall psychosis every day) and now what do i do? Of course, one could argue that that the years when I was abusing adderall like a madman was the time I had truly dropped out of life. That makes more sense.
Cassie, I figure I am going to grab a bunch of career guides and do some research and will share any helpful info I learn when I start the process after my second exam attempt.
I do feel that life has cleared out all the things that weren't working for me. Now I can start over and make the right things happen.
Anybody have any thoughts? Suggestions? Dealing with the same thing?
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Wait. Isn't she in ritalin withdrawal??
17 Years old. My life is already over 500mg>/Day Binges
in Tell your story
Posted
Also bearman, Any pill that can actually eventually cause someone to have thoughts of wanting to kill themselves if they cant be on it is totally f---- up. dont you think?Thats how sickeningly powerful this drug is and how much of a hold it can eventually have over a persons mind.You dont want to be on this anymore.