15.5 months off Adderall. Trying to figure out what to do next

[Sebastian05]

hey everyone:

 

excuse my last post. i deleted it after realizing that the details within the message could have been interpreted as triggers by some on this site. I would hate for that to happen.

 

i was also really angry when i wrote the post, and I'll explain why in a moment here.

 

I had a doctor's appointment recently just for a checkup and he asked how everything was going. I told him that I still have a lot of anxiety and that it comes and goes. But when I have it, it is really bad. The depression is still there too, but it doesnt hang over my head and press me down the way it first did when i quit 15.5 months ago. The anxiety is a real bitch though.

 

My doctor doesn't believe in medications. He tries to keep people off as many as possible and he NEVER prescribes adderall. He thinks its very dangerous. Don't worry. I wasnt there looking for any. Remember, I'm the guy who has an almost full prescription bottle in my drawer that I never threw away after I quit. My doctor said I'm doing a real disservice to myself by letting myself suffer with the anxiety and the depression and he thinks I should at the very least go talk to a psychologist. I'll do that. I've done it before. My last psychologist was a great guy, but he had also been on Concerta for about 11 years he told me. He was a really sweet guy and really nice and caring, and he took the honest belief that "if it helps you feel good and makes you happy and has a positive impact in your life. do it." 

 

Now, he wasnt telling me to go back on adderall. I was never addicted to adderall. I quit because I didn't want the f'n amphetamine chemicals in my body and I didn't want them to burn out my dopamine receptors. I just straight up would prefer not to be on any medications at all. But is that the smartest thing to do? I dunno.

 

What kinda bummed me out (And i know this person didn't mean to do it im sure)...but someone on this site recently posted something about being the happiest they've ever been and how they quit adderall and now they are on strattera and feel GREAT.

 

That got me thinking...."well. shit. maybe i should be transferring to another med to help me focus and concentrate and lift me up again".

 

I eat extremely healthy. I work out all the time. But I just dont have the same zest for life that I used to. I'm not excited and happy like i used to be. I'm just "meh". 

 

Am I in better shape than I was a year ago? I'd say yes. For sure. Do I feel great? No.

 

And thats the problem. When I hear about people doing great and feeling great, then i start wondering "am i denying myself happiness by not going on any meds? should i keep pushing to get to 2 years off of adderall and then re-evaluate".

 

I think its CASSIE on her who keeps saying it gets better after two years. If thats the case, i've come this far...and i can keep pushing.

 

There are a lot of things in my life right now that I'm grateful for. There are a handful of things that are weighing me down and making me really sad. The new job that I took after quitting my old job is certainly WAY BETTER than my old job, but this job is also kinda soul sucking

 

(For you guys who dont know my story, I'm a lawyer. I moved to the philly area for a job. Bought a house here. Things were going great, so I decided to just quit adderall so that I could be really healthy. Then turned out that the job i moved to philly for was absolutely awful. So I found a new job that's better in every way but still just is not satisfying to me at all and as a result it is VERY hard for me to focus and stay organized).

 

I'm trying to figure out where the anxiety and depression is stemming from. I've turned the internet upside down and have read everything under the sun regarding adderall treatment and adderall withdrawal and I've found so many sites that indicate that depression and anxiety is just part of the withdrawal. Okay, i get it...but I'm 15.5 months out at this point. Is it as bad as it was? No. Is it getting better? I dunno? Maybe? 

 

So at this point im just trying to figure out what to do. I want to control my own life and make good decisions. I really do not like the Philly area at all. I want to move and will eventually move the hell outta here, but I have to make sure that my decisions are well thought out and calculated so that I'm fixing problems instead of creating more. 

 

Do I go to a psychiatrist and tell them everything that has happened in my experience with taking adderall (not abusing it) - Taking 10-20mg a day for about 4.5-5 years).  Do I ask if i should go on Concerta? I've found a lot of things online that say Concerta is pretty helpful. But again, I dont want to jump down the fucking rabbit hole of withdrawal..EVER AGAIN.

 

The withdrawal from adderall is extremely heavy. It is a big factor in what keeps me away from the pills because nobody ever told me that there would be withdrawal and that it would be BAD.

 

But again, the anxiety bouts that I have are brutal and really suck. I'm trying to fight this out, guys. I'm trying to make every best decision I can for my own physical and mental health. I need to come out of this on top. I need to get rid of this anxiety and self defeating mentality.

 

I was on effexor at 50mg every other day before I started Adderall. I havent been on any antidepressant in about 6+ years. I never gained weight on effexor and I didnt have any negative side effects from it. But I'd prefer not to go on any antidepressant if that would be possible. My doctor also knows that I do not want to gain any weight. Thats just not an option for me. So he would prefer not to have me on any antidepressant because many do cause weight gain.

 

I always manage to write a dissertation here. But these are all the thoughts running through my head right now.

 

Any and all advice is appreciated.

 

Sebastian

[quit-once]

Sebastian, there is one thing I want to respond to in your post...well, it will likely be 2 or 3 things. 

Thing 1:  You took adderall for 4.5 years.  How could you not become addicted?  Don't get abuse and addiction confused.  Abuse is when you take more than prescribed or take it for other reasons than it was prescribed for...i.e. getting things done or feeling high or treating your own depression instead of strict treatment for ADHD or narcolepsy.  Those are the ONLY medically approved uses for stimulants in general.  You have described many of the symptoms of addiction like stashing your pills and suffering withdrawals and having trouble quitting.  And relapsing.  Please re-read some of your early posts if you want to refresh your memory why you quit in the first place.   If you take another drug that is considered a stimulant, your addiction will return.  Period.  There is no shame in having an addiction when it simply comes as a side effect of a drug taken as prescribed.  (Justin, I hope you read this part too because I have never heard you discuss your adderall addiction).

 

Thing 2:  Cassie is right.  You do feel more normal after two years away from adderall, although my biggest gains were around the end of my first year.  And as I approach the three year mark, I can say I still experienced gains in cognition and motivation during my third year of recovery.  But I am still not exactly where I want to be mentally or physically.....yet

 

Thing 3:  Seeing a shrink is the ONLY way you will be able to cure your depression and anxiety without drugs.  It is what everybody used to do 50 years ago before the advent of all these psychopharmaceuticals.  If you hit a dead end with the shrink, then see another, and if you don't make any progress from 2 or 3 different psyche doctors, then maybe it would be time to consider the drugs.  

[Cassie]

I agree with quit-once. If you weren't addicted to a drug, would you still be thinking about it 15 months later, missing it every day? Were you still thinking about Effexor a year after you stopped taking it? I doubt it. That is the difference between addictive drugs (amphetamines, benzos and opiates) and non-addictive drugs like anti-depressants. You don't form an emotional attachment to non-addictive drugs. Concerta is an addictive stimulant, in the same class as Adderall. I'm not sure why you think it would somehow be less harmful as Adderall if taken long term. Concerta, Adderall and Vyvanse all carry the same addiction warnings by the manufacturer, all schedule II drugs.

 

It is a hard struggle to stay off amphetamines and I think the most important traits you can have during the process are faith (that your situation will improve with time because your current feelings/mindset are temporary) and a good attitude. It used to be really hard for me to maintain a positive attitude but regular meditation has really helped me with this. Improving your attitude will also make you more attractive and interesting to be around, so there are many reasons to at least try to improve your attitude a little bit. At 15 months I still felt very out of sorts, lacked confidence and felt lost. I had the same thoughts as you, that maybe I am denying myself happiness and zest for life and a pill would make it all better. I realized I thought this way because of my addiction to adderall. 

 

You're doing great with your diet and exercise, holding down a job, etc. You have many reasons to be proud of yourself for being sober this long and based on your old posts it seems like you are much better off than you were a year ago. It will only get better from here. You have to believe that though (that's where the faith part comes in). If you go back on amphetamines and want to quit again in the future you'll be going through all this crap again. One piece of advice is to stay off the Internet. Reading stories about Adderall and Concerta and comparing yourself to others is not going to work in your favor. People tend to put their best foot forward online and you never know someone's whole story - only a brief snippet from a snapshot in time - so only compare yourself to yourself. I think the psychologist/therapy route is a good idea before going on back on amphetamines. 

[Zerokewl]

Before adderall I took concerta. I never abused concerta until I took adderall. Concerta is a less intense amphetamine however I was deeply dependant on the concerta. I can remember on days I forgot to take it returning home to get them.  When I started taking adderall, that was when I really spiralled into crazy abuse and began crushing the Concerta pills to get high. I would use the concerta and the adderall at the same time somedays.

 

 I've been off both for close to 11 months and I still struggle with the depression and occasional anxiety. I started seeing a therapist about two weeks ago and that seems to help.  I still sleep quite a lot and struggle with getting shit done.  However I'm starting to see  improvements and feel some peace in my life. The adderall mentality is the hardest to get over. The therapist is helping me with some of my stinking thinking. Alot of my issues with depression existed before and I think I used adderall to deal with them. 

 

I don't really have much in the way of advice. I would avoid concerta and throw out your expired pills. I've thought about going on Concerta again myself to help with work and stuff. But once I cross that line I imagine its a matter of time before I'm back on Adderall too. I think the withdrwal off Concerta is similar to Adderall. Though I quit both at about the same time when I would run out of Concerta I remember having similar symptoms. 

 

Have a great Easter. 

[hyper_critical]

Great post, great replies so far.

 

Seb - great that you can still reach out at 15.5 months...I had a year last Sunday and though I'm very happy with where I'm at, I can feel myself becoming a little slower to ask for help because my deranged mind thinks everything should be just honky dory by now.

 

From my perspective, it's plain and simple: speed is a terrible antidepressant, and it's certainly not going to help with anxiety. The rest is talking yourself in circles.

 

Address the problem...don't use it as a rationalization to pick up again.

[Sebastian05]

Hey everyone:

I really appreciate the responses. I'm at such a difficult cross roads right now. See, here's the thing that really sucks. Of course I do feel better than 15.5 months ago, but I don't feel RIGHT. I've read so much online about dopamine deficiency and how that is a direct cause of ADHD and cause of depression.

 

The way I feel now is the way I used to feel (even while on Effexor) actually worse to be honest. I've read a bunch of stuff online where adderall and concerta have helped people like me with anxiety issues and have gotten rid of their anxiety and helped them really buckle down and have focus and drive. I just dunno what to do. I'm definitely always in a haze at work and in a haze with life in general.

 

My sleep has gotten better, but it still is pretty awful. I'm envious of all of you who can "sleep all day". I wish i had that ability to zonk out. It is rare that I fall asleep and wake up feeling really refreshed and energized and ready to take on the day. I usually wake up several times throughout the night with lots of anxiety.

 

Sometimes i feel like my life is okay. Sometimes i feel like im barely holding it together. But never do i feel GREAT. And that's another thing. Life is not meant to be lived feeling like you're BARELY hanging on. I dunno where the old Sebastian went. The one who would wake up in the morning and couldnt wait to go downstairs and brew a big fat pot of coffee and sit outside with a cup of coffee feeling the crisp morning air all over my face and body.

 

I'm trying really hard to believe things are going to get better. I'm trying really hard to believe this isn't permanent. I miss my confidence. I miss feeling happy. I miss feeling excited and optimistic about my future. I REALLY miss feeling driven and motivated and passionate. Cassie, you give me a lot of hope that things will keep getting better. There's one person on this site who I talk to on the phone pretty regularly. He/She has become a close friend and he/she has helped me believe that a lot of this is in my head and that its just going to take more time.

 

I'm definitely going to set up an appointment with a new therapist. I havent been to a therapist in probably 6 months at least. And even then, my therapist said he himself had been on Concerta for 11 years or so and that he's still on it.  My life has to turn around and I need to start feeling more like a fucking normal human being instead of someone who is just barely hanging on and barely keeping shit together. I'm going to keep taking l-tyrosine and 5-htp and GABA and l-theanine and SAM-e. I need to get back to normal.

 

Sometimes I feel like I don't know who I've become and it scares the shit out of me. I used to be the most social person ever. I used to love always having people to see and things to do. I used to love dating. Now I barely ever feel like doing anything. I stay in a lot. My spare time is generally filled with just going to the gym and running errands.

 

I hope everyone is having a good weekend. I wish i could be a beacon of positivity, but right now I'm still just pretty scared.

 

S

[Zerokewl]

Just wanted to say I thought about your post all weekend.  I know how you feel the blah's not happy not sad just blah.  I feel this way a lot.  Its the inability to feel joy and drudgery of everyday life. I used to be excited about stuff.   For me  I get flashes of joy here and there and I think oh maybe things are getting better. Its a weird feeling. I don't have any advice other than keep on trucking. 

[JustinW]

There is no shame in having an addiction when it simply comes as a side effect of a drug taken as prescribed.  (Justin, I hope you read this part too because I have never heard you discuss your adderall addiction).

I haven't discussed it but I haven't denied it or hid it either.  I was not in the stages of addiction where the "adverse consequences" were immediately apparent to me.  My shame doesn't lie in my addiction but in my poor behavior while taking adderall; my daily choice is to go back to the medication, dwell on the negative, or use my experiences to become a better person.  I don't know what your point is in calling me out on this.  I've been nothing but open and honest on this forum.  If you want to know something about me just ask.  Heck, if you're savvy you could find out a lot of details about me just by using Google.

[quit-once]

Justin,

That comment wasn't intended to be confrontational but that's exactly how it sounded.  Instead of trying to explain where I was going, I would like to simply apologize to you.  My comment was out of place within the content of this discussion thread.

I've had a rough week with emotional ups and downs, overeating, and I've been struggling with bouts of (my own) asshole-ism. 

Please forgive me - I think I am due for a mini vacation.

[JustinW]

Quit-once,

It seemed like an atypical response from you so it really caught me off guard.  I'm sorry to hear that you're having a bad week.  Cut yourself some slack this weekend and have some "you time" and things will get better.  It sounds like you are under a lot of stress.  Feel free to start another thread in the direction that you were heading and I will gladly participate.  I hope things turn around for you soon; have a great weekend!

[Gigem2012]

Sabastian,

 

I have been off Adderall for 16 months and am struggling with everything you are today. I was able to graduate college, find and maintain a job during these 16 months, but they have been hell.

 

I never feel normal. I constantly feel disoriented. Like you, I am always online searching for a cure or remedy so I can return to my normal self. I find myself more short tempered than I ever was. Motivation is hard to come by.

 

I wish I would know that I was going to recover. That is the part that I cant get over. I am constantly wondering if permanent damage has been done. Keep me posted on your progress since we are on the same time frame for recovery. Good luck!

[Zerokewl]

There seems to to a theme on the board lately... the 16 month slump/plateau. 

[Jazzy7]

I really hope some people who have past the 16 month point can help us out with this topic because it does seem to be a theme and is where I am at. Is there a point that people start to see progress again?

[Greg]

When I was at 16 months I was in a million times worse shape than I am now, if that gives you any indication things will get better. At 16 months I was getting PAWS that would last for days and then I'd be alright for a few days and then it would hit me again for days and days, I used to write about it ALL the time on this board. It's not like that anymore. It doesn't last for days and days. i still get PAWS but it is infrequent when I get it.

[Gigem2012]

InRecovery,

 

This may be sad, but I am not sure what PAWS is. Also, at what point in the process are you?

[Greg]

I am a few years out..Here are some links to get you up to date with PAWS.

 

 

 

A good link --  http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/post-acute-withdrawal.htm

[SweetCarolinee]

Shit, I am not looking forwards to hitting that 16 month mark eeek!

[JustinW]

SC - everyone's recovery process is different, maybe 16 mos. won't be so bad for you.  I'm staring it down pretty quick here and things aren't always sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows but things aren't too bad either most days.