Krax
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Posts posted by Krax
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Thank u so much krax, u know ur the onky person ive heard that from...its hard to feel like ur doing good when everyone in ur life is coming down on u. My boyfriend compkains constantly about how the hiuse isnt clean and im lazy. Its not like im already not upset with myself enough you know? Im just so sick of crying...
And justinw ur right, i just didnt think it would have that much effect ir set me back much by just doing it a day or two...i hope i was wrong and there is an excuse for this laziness
Ally I'm sorry you don't have much support. You know my wife was the biggest help for me but I think she got frustrated too, she was just happy I wasn't grinding my teeth and flipping out all the time. Your physical recovery gets better and better, but it takes 4 months for most of us. After that, the psychological recovery is very non-linear, real up and down, so you have to be ready for that. I agree though that you've done the hardest part, those first 4 weeks or so are the toughest physically.
On an unrelated note I was born in Rockford.
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One more one more thing: I took very low dose, 75 mg of WB in morning only.
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I wanted to add something: the idea that you can go from using such a drastic central nervous stimulant like amp, to nothing, without major withdraws for a sustained period of time is absurd. I'm not blaming the user, I think if any of us had had any idea what it would be like we would have been more hesitant to use it amp in the first place. For me, with my professional obligations, I could not have sustained my quit without some help, and Wellbutrin was it. You know, after 3 or 4 weeks you feel so great, then things go bad again in different ways - WB gave me some stimlulated stability for which I am forever grateful.
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Chris my advocacy is based only on my personal experience and I have no medical background.
I just note how similar time line wise so many forum members' experienced in recovery have been.
Okay, so here goes:
I have a very limited lay person's understanding of some of the chemistry involved, which is that amphetamine does 2 things, it releases dopamine and it inhibits the reabsorption of it back into the brain cells (?) so that more is swimming around in your head making you stimulated. The release of dopamine is what is so addictive. That is why appetite and sexual activity is decreased because you normally get dopamine released from those things but with amp who needs it? So right there you see how amp messes with God's engineering (designed to propagate the human race). That's a red flag right there.
So when you take amp the artificial release of dopamine throws your system out of wack and you stop producing and releasing dopamine normally. This is why you are so tired when you don't take amp. I had a psych tells me brain cells should recalibrate after about two weeks off amp. To this I cried bullshit! Now the thing is amp creates it's own dependency in that the more you take it the more you need and crave it, so when you awake and take one pill you auto are withdrawing because again, you are telling your brain NOT to release dopamine on its own, you've got it covered with your pills.
It takes a long time to get back to normal. I never would have made it without wellbutrin, I would have given in out of exhaustion. Wellbutrin does not release dopamine, but it does the 2nd thing amp does, it inhibits the reabsorption. It feels like a even coffee buzz all day. First few weeks are weird, buzzing feeling in your head, but in my case that went away. It is not addictive. I quit after 4 months. I can see why it's so successful as a smoking cessation cure.
Hope that helps
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I want u all to know how sweet u were to reply to this topic. I would love to accept the praise from u but i cant, i failed. I was too much of a coward to even read the posts thoriughly. My mind was made up. I relapsed again. I have been clean since february 10th now. But today has been one hell of a day. This past week has been bad. Just checking in to see how everyone else is. Especially u iyvey, did u make it past day 10?!
Is it just me or does it feel like a million times worse trying to quit after several relapses? I do t even feel good about quitting anymire i just feel like a failure..
Quitting for 5 or 6 weeks is no small feat - I wouldn't feel like a failure for that. Those are 5 or 6 long weeks. If you can do that you can quit for much longer.
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I guess I don't understand, if all people on this site (and elsewhere) are reporting such horrible side effects from both long and short term use, why this drug would still be taken by people at all (or why it would have ever gotten and continued to be approved for that matter).
It makes me wonder if this drug might actually do more good than harm -- for some folks (I realize this isn't what many people here might believe or want to believe).
The truth is that as much as we are the same, our bodies and brains are all different and we have had different life experiences (before and after starting the drug), so it is hard to generalize.
I'm not really sure how much of a problem Adderall was until my doctor prescribed me Vyvanse - which (for some unknown reason) pushed me over the edge into psychosis. Why Vyvanse? My doctor at the time was into "trying new things," and Vyvanse was the latest "wonder drug" for ADHD/ADD.
I know she wasn't trying to f* up my brain (drugs can sound really good on paper and her intentions were in fact good) but that is in effect what happened.
After taking (low end typical dose - 20 mg?) Vyvanse for just one month, I think my brain was severely altered, and even taking Adderall at my former dose was TOO MUCH. I tapered down on my own but not before serious damage done to my career, relationships, etc from the changes the medications caused to my brain.
She apologized, but it really was kind of irresponsible of her, in fact, and led me to believe that doctors should be on some of these prescriptions THEMSELVES prescribing them to their patients (a la Jonas Salk).
The same doctor prescribed Paxil to me (depression either to the lowered amphetamine dose or the natural side effects of depressing life changes secondary to amphetamine induced brain changes), and I experienced "brain zaps" (in extraordinarily clinically imprecise language). I reported this to her and she didn't believe me (yes, dear doctor, I make these things up just for my own amusement).
It's really amazing how clueless they can be.
Full disclosure - I work in the pharmaceutical industry, but have NEVER worked on a trial supporting development of a psych drug, and my perception of trials in this discipline (MUCH more than ANY other therapeutic area) is that drug developers are basically grasping at straws and throwing darts at a board in terms of any real substantive information (and yes, some of these developers ARE in for the quick buck much more than finding truly helpful medicines - not that difficult to distinguish), and if you think about how much is unknown about the brain, this does make sense.
The medical community sometimes "poo-poohs" online forums as "unscientific", and there is no doubt that (however wonderful and useful a forum might be), they are not the same as a randomized, double-blind trial (run by ETHICAL investigators and staff members) testing efficacy and safety of one treatment vs. another (no offense, but how do you know who is for real vs. not?) , but if the same complaints are seen again and again - wouldn't (shouldn't) the "experts safeguarding public health" (yes, FDA, that means you!) start to take notice??
If Adderall were causing such problems (long-term) for everyone, why is it that this is the only forum? Why aren't more folks complaining to their doctor (and doctor finally getting sick of hearing their complaints recommends switching to non-stimulant?). Maybe because they changes are so subtle (ie: dissimilar to "brain-zaps"), over time that people don't realize what is happening? Or is the drug actually not effecting everyone the same way (being that our brains are all different and would therefore respond differently to the same drug?).
All that said, the animal research on amphetamines is compelling and scary (in more ways than one).
Sorry for this long post!
I can't wait to read the responses to this one
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Antidepressants is such a vague and general term, in fact I think amphetamine could be characterised as one of the first anti depressants . There is nothing similar between SSRIs like Prozac or Effexor , and Wellbutrin, they are totally different. I know many of you know this, but I'm pointing that out for everyone else. I had tried quitting while using Effexor and prosac, but it just made me even more tired. Wellbutrin doesn't release dopamine however it does inhibit the reabsorption of it, so it' was really a perfect transition to sobriety for me and non addictive. I know it sounds like I'm a sales rep for Wellbutrin, but it's just that I get frustrated reading peoples posts who are still using but are making all these grandiose plans to quit, and then I never see them again. I think there are a lot of unrealistic expectations out there, I should know I had them too, but to quit using such a cataclysmic central nervous stimulator is so hard.
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I've always thought that drugs are drugs, whether you get them on the street or from a pharmacy. All illegal drugs were legal at one point and used for 'medicine.' So i never deluded myself into thinking prescription speed was less dangerous or addictive than street drugs. When i quit my mind went to all kinds of justifications though. Like maybe i really have add and i need speed. I just pushed through those thoughts and recognized them as the addiction talking. Reading the book 'On Speed' put this topic in perspective, the marketing of amphetamines throughout history and how the diagnoses change over time to suit the culture.
With regard to myself I may or may not fall within the definition of ADD or ADHD, but in the final analysis this question is irrelevant. Even if I have a condition like that, the fact is that amphetamine while somewhat effective does more harm then good, and it's a bull-in-the-china-shop solution to a condition that is not insurmountable.
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When does your energy come back! I will have some days where I am fine and have a great day and others where I have no motivation and want to stay in bed. I do go to work and do want I need to but anything extra I feel trapped in my body "screaming in my head get up and move!" I am not depressed just lazy!!!
It takes 4 months - this was my experience any many others - to regain just basic minimal energy. I've said over and over to people that Wellbutrin saved my life in that I couldn't have stayed off amphetamine without it. After 4 months enough of my natural energy returned to quit wellbutrin. I've had many people respond that "oh I don't want to put any other drugs in my body," this coming from someone still taking adderall. That's a user's way of seeing everything black and white. I don't know how people quit, and I know some do, without something like wellbutrin.
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One thing that's helped me is to not try to be positive, happy or optimistic if that's not what I'm feeling. Trying to change my feelings never works for me. It feels tedious and superficial. Instead I stop resisting what I'm feeling and lean into it. Then it passes and I feel good again. Sometimes it takes a day or so, but it passes if I don't try to change it. I think that's the key, learning to feel crappy at times without trying to change those feelings whenever they arise, or wonder what you can do to change your mood. What you resists persists, as they say. On Adderall you're used to never feeling sadness or having to suffer a low mood, but that's not human. In reality, good feelings pass through and bad feelings pass through..
Very much agree. Trying to be positive or happy by telling myself to be happy is like trying to fall asleep by telling myself to fall asleep.
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Ask you dr about Wellbutrin, that got me through my first four months clean
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Ritalin was my primary drug for 4.5 years. I substituted concerta for it for awhile but went back to the ritalin because I liked being able to dose more often. My breaking point that directly led me to trying to quit (which took 6 months to do) was focalin. That drug is EVIL. Unlike ritalin, where after taking too much of it for too long I would experience massive gas pains, it seemed I could stay on focalin forever.
The thing that helped me quit (besides telling my wife not to let me take it anymore) was Wellbutrin. I took that the first four months off of amphetamine. At that point as my vitality returned I couldn't tolerate the wellbutrin stimulus anymore, but for those first four months it saved me.
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I use Albuterol on occasion
Good memory, the feline in question was quickly vacated from the premises. We still have a small dog; my preference would be no pets but she doesn't seem to be in too much of a hurry to shuffle this mortal coil.
Albuterol by itself wouldn't cut it for me, I'm surprised your Dr hasn't tried you on QVAR, it's a steroid preventive inhaler, like Flonase for asthma and it works wonders.
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I got fed up with not being able to breath at night so I went to the doctor yesterday. The highlight of my visit was when we talked about my ADHD. She asked if I wanted to go back on adderall or try a different medication and I told her that I don't want to go down that road and that I would work on developing my own coping mechanisms. She asked if I planned out most of my work for the mornings and I told her that there is nothing about my life right now that even resembles the word "plan". I am greatful to have a medical professional that is genuinely concerned about my life.
We discussed the options for my breathing problems and there were no alternatives to a 6 day treatment of Prednisone. She wants to try Singulair for a long term possibility but I need to run that by my aviation doctor to see if it will affect my medical certificate.
Justin do you use Qvar or other inhalers?
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Though I completely agree with quit once that you are asking the wrong question, and that it is irrelevant why you cannot take it in moderation, I think there is a relatively simple reason. My lay person's understanding is that once you take amphetamine your brain has an unnatural release and inhibited reabsorption of dopamine, in a way that God or our designer never ever intended. As a consequence of that, your brain's natural production and release of dopamine is thrown out of whack, and from that first pill you begin to withdraw from that synthetic mass release and crave the same thing. I'm sure someone else can correct me in some way or explain it better, but the bottom line is that the drug itself creates the need and craving for additional doses, sort of like with nicotine.
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I think my allergies have gotten worse since quitting. It wouldn't surprise me if our bodies are in a weakened state during withrdawl.
You know, I've had allergies for years-which is common in the NW, and when I first went on Ritalin I honestly believed it reduced them in some way, I felt like they weren't as present as before. After I started trying to quit, going on and off on a regular basis, I realized it only reduced how much I noticed my allergies - in other words when on Ritalin when I thought about it I could see my allergies weren't any better but rather I was just able to ignore them more. Related to that was the fact that though my sense of taste was not deficient when on Ritalin, my ability to enjoy tasting things was. Amphetamine just disconnects me mentally and physically, good and bad. It's a bull in the china shop remedy for dealing with things.
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Thank you for sharing that
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ADDrew,
I applaud your efforts to get differing viewpoints about using this drug. I am sure you are aware that the opinions expressed around here will be biased against using adderall - otherwise we would still be using it and posting on drugs-forum.com. or addforums.com (both sites are worth checking out). Quitting is a huge and personal decision that needs to come from within. Whether you like it or not, addiction is the reality of amphetamine usage, whether you abused the drug or not, and it is nothing to be ashamed of, either. But that is exactly why you do not feel "normal" when you don't take it. Recovery from adderall addiction is a multi-year process which you can verify by reading some of our stories. In fact, you may feel out- of- sorts for the entire first year of quitting. It is not something you can quit and go back to and cycle through use and non use without feeling like total shit for a long time. So the decision to quit requires total commitment.
By the way, the most famous case of amphetamines causing parkinsons disease was Adolph Hitler. Also, JFK had some long-term amphetamine issues as well.
Quitonce where did you read that hitler had Parkinsons?
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Yeah. I've been doing it Ibly siq trackz that I am almost scared to look at or take a listen to because of who I was and where I was when I wrote them... I'm at a crossroad. What's your story??
I got into recording, mixing ect when my son was in a band in junior high. I had always been interested in it and it gave us an activity together, which was cool. This was shortly before the ritalin era, as I call it. At the time, I had external pressures to learn what I was doing, for their sake, and it was rewarding.
When on ritalin, I went real crazy with doing my own stuff, some hardware but mostly virtual instrument stuff on cubase and numerous plug ins. Just went nuts! I'd be up all night just on some drum loop, or whatever, totally obsessed. Since I quit though, absolutely no intererst. In fact, thinking of it kind of turns me off as it reminds me of the ritalin days. You know some of the IOS apps are killer: electrify, DM 1, Funkbox, the Korg apps, it's just crazy, but I can't keep any motivation or interest going very long. So it's like a part of my past now.
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I used to love writing and making music, still do, but addy soured it. Made it a dirty secret
FW like home recording, digital? That's my activity, or it was.
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Anyone soured on an activity because they associate it with adderall?
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Just wanted to announce I got the job in Ohio and I am moving back in a week! I should be arriving home on 3 year anniversary. I'm pretty excited.
Are you changing you name to LILOHIO
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It was probably like arguing with someone who doesn't believe in global warming.
Or like arguing with someone who does believe in global warming.
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Unfortunately, it's like the name of one of our most inspiring members - Motivation Follows Action
where is MFA?
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Needed opinions on Straterra - the nin stimulant adhd drug
in Supplements, Energy Drinks, and Alternatives
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I had it prior to taking ritalin. I didn't get much out of it except for a nasty side effect I'd rather not describe. Have you tried wellbutrin?