[Name something you have done recently without adderall :)]

On 1/28/2020 at 1:46 PM, eric said:

@Tom23Jones Thats awesome, sounds like Dave Ramsey steps? I was paying off all my non-mortgage debt and on track to being debt free but during that phase I got my first Vyvanse script and unfortunately all the financial steps went out the window. Hopefully I can get back to it and become financially stable again.

Yessir, doing the Dave Ramsey financial university changed my life.  Its the most simple shit but if you work hard and follow it, financial freedom really happens.

[Name something you have done recently without adderall :)]

Got promoted to blue belt in jiu jitsu.  Saved a 6 month emergency fund with my wife.  Paid off all non mortgage debt.

[WOULD LIKE ADVICE ON GOING TO MEETINGS]

I definitely recommend going to NA meetings.  They have them everywhere so you should be able to find one close to home.  If you've never been, just go into it open minded and keep going back.  The first few times I went I thought it was the weirdest shit ever but I could tell the people there deeply benefited from the meetings.  I still go to occasional meetings after being off adderall for almost 4 years and no boos for almost 3 years.  Its about more than not using.  The meetings help keep life in perspective and its a place to go share whats on your heart with no judgement.

I tried the  pseudephedrine  shit when I first gave up adderall but your just prolonging recovery by taking that stuff.  I'd ditch it as soon as possible.

[7 weeks clean- so bored]

Maybe the next time a birthday or event comes up you just let them know ahead of time that you have social anxiety. So if your awkward or roll out early they won't be offended. But I'd still try to make these events because it gets harder the more you isolate.  I still have events I want to avoid, especially with people I don't know well but the more I attend these things the better I cope.  And almost ALWAYS, I leave saying that was fun, not nearly as terrifying as I expected.

You mention the possibility of getting triggered into popping 10mg to get through... that makes it sound like you still have some lying around or easy access to some?  I'd flush that shit and/or cut off the access to it.  If you want to be done with adderall, You've gotta draw a line in the sand and know thats not an option anymore.

[Unexpected Triggers and Coping]

5 minutes ago, DelaneyJuliette said:

8 minutes ago, Tom23Jones said:

As you string together some clean time your anxiety will improve and slowly you'll gain clarity of mind but if you interrupt that with stimulants you'll just be prolonging all the healing.

I have to keep telling myself this over and over.  

yeah its hard to trust the process because recovery is not a linear process.  You don't always improve from one day to the next... you can have some great weeks and then suffer a setback of anxiety and cravings.  But as you put together months and years things start drastically improving.  Obviously positive habits help build momentum, exercise, meditation, healthy eating etc

[Unexpected Triggers and Coping]

36 minutes ago, DelaneyJuliette said:

I wasn't expecting to be triggered today like that, and THEN, to make matters harder, this friend has been substance free for like 8 years, and the next message i listened to from her was her confessing to me that she's going to go to a weight loss clinic and be prescribed phentermine b/c she can't lose 25 lbs (and stimulants were her drug of choice and 8 years ago when she relapsed it started with phentermine.)  And guess what I felt when I heard her message?  (Well, a part of me did feel grateful that she felt safe enough with me that she could share without judgement)  BUT THE OTHER PART OF ME FELT JEALOUS!!!!  And I immedately started googling phentermine vs. adderall.

If stimulants were her drug of choice then I'd do my best to discourage her from phentermine.  That stuff is trash and its very harsh.  I justified using it at the end of my adderall abuse but I was quickly abusing it the same way.  The odds of this drug having a positive impact on your friends life is super slim.  She might have another small honeymoon phase but it'll go bad.  That shit made my heart race, made me sweat and horrific panic attacks when I abused it.  I recommend your friend find a healthier way to get fit. And I strongly discourage you from justifying that as an alternative to adderall.  

As you string together some clean time your anxiety will improve and slowly you'll gain clarity of mind but if you interrupt that with stimulants you'll just be prolonging all the healing.

[I can't believe it's me...]

33 minutes ago, NurseAddy said:

@Tom23Jones I too have been taking caffeine pills to try and reproduce my high feelings, never with any luck. I suppose I naively expected this recovery to be quick when I abused for years and am only a month in to sobriety. Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate you replying. May I ask what you did, specifically, at the beginning to help with the recovery? What exercises and how often etc?

yeah recovery is definitely not a linear process. And unfortunately you'll have good days and weeks which may be unexpectedly followed up by cravings and feeling of dread.  You just have to draw a line in the sand and embrace the suck and never look back. Just find comfort in knowing that all the shitty parts are normal and eventually you'll come out the other side.

A lot of people on here advocate that you treat yourself nicely and allow yourself to be lazy and netflix and chill but I think the opposite.  I think the faster you can rely on discipline the better.  Motivation is bullshit.  Anyone can do shit when they are motivated and excited.  The hard part is doing difficult things when arent motivated to do so.  So you don't feel like going to the gym? Your feelings don't get a vote, you go anyhow.  Through this struggle is where you really find yourself and start to value yourself.

I recommend a strength training program for 3 to 5 days per week.  Lifting weights can help lift depression and anxiety, also helps with cognitive function.

I also cannot recommend meditating enough. I thought it was just some hippy shit but it really does quiet the mind of all the background chatter and helps with focus.  I use the headspace app.  But none of this is instant gratification type stuff that us addie abusers are used to.  Its a slow organic process.  You might struggle sitting to meditate for weeks before you finally realize the subtle benefits.  

Lastly, NA meetings have been a huge part of my recovery.  I don't go as often anymore as I seldom think of adderall or alcohol but in the beginning when I was really white knuckleing it NA was there.  NA is another thing thats super weird at first but everyones story is always super relatable 

[I can't believe it's me...]

13 hours ago, NurseAddy said:

 

@Tom23Jones I’m glad I could inspire you to keep on the straight and narrow path, if only I could practice what I preach. I’m just craving it like mad now, hoping not to score some the back route. The cravings have been relentless this past month for me. When did you stop craving it, if I may ask?

I obsessed over the urge to find more for awhile, at least a few months.  I also tried too hard to replace the feeling with caffeine and supplements.  At about the 6 month mark I remember it finally clicked that abusing adderall is just slowly committing suicide.  It also helped big time when I started replacing my bad habits with positive ones, meditating, exercise, eating healthy, NA Meetings, etc.

Lastly, once my crippling anxiety and panic attacks lifted, I knew I could never resort back to adderall which was the cause of my panic attacks.  I'll occasionally have anxiety but its very fleeting and manageable.  Unlike when I was abusing adderall, the panic attacks were full psychosis hell.

[I can't believe it's me...]

On 10/21/2019 at 9:30 PM, NurseAddy said:

You don’t NEED Adderall, it needs you. You don’t need a crutch, a comfort blanket or a way out. You need help. You deserve a life of not being chained to pills, not wondering when the next refill is, not calculating how many pills you have left till you’re out, not racking your brain thinking of how to score more, not dreading the crash after a binge and not fearing when there’s only one pill left. You deserve to sleep, eat and feel normal. You deserve to live reality and not escape it. You deserve to live, without adderall. 

Man, I needed to read this today, I've been feeling a lack of gratitude recently but this sure as fuck brought back some memories.  Today I'm thankful to not be chained to those fucking pills.

Nurse Addy, I hope you are doing well.  Hopefully this relapse was a reminder that adderall addiction is pure fucking chaos and in no way sustainable. 

[What motivates you to stay clean?]

I stay motivated to keep clean because of the peace of mind it offers.  The relief of not having to count pills and wonder where your going to get more when you run out. And stress over where your going to get money to get those pills.  It was chaos.  Also the peace of mind mentioned above, not having to worry about having a stroke or heart attack.  At the end it was a complete obsession, there was nothing fucking fun about it.  I'd have constant panic/anxiety attacks and still kept popping them like candy. Fucking insanity.

But I never have to resort to that bullshit again.  Today I'm grateful for the calmness and clarity I have.  So much more time and energy to put towards myself, my family, my health instead of thinking about a drug every waking minute.

[How did you quit adderall taper or cold turkey?]

Cold turkey.  Once my mind was FOR REAL made up that my adderall abuse was not sustainable, I knew I had to quit and never look back.... I knew it was going to suck and be the hardest thing I'd ever done but there is no way I could've slowly tapered off.  I tried controlling my using for years so why the fuck would I think I'd be able to control tapering off.

Plus I feel like cold turkey is getting a jump on your recovery.  Letting your brain start the healing/rewiring process. 

[MLB adderall player looks to be crashing.]

I was thinking the same thing about Chris Davis's slump, his amphetamine honeymoon stage is over and now he can't fucking focus

[Feeling Lonely]

On 3/18/2019 at 8:33 PM, DrewK15 said:

@Kiki I do really want to check out yoga. Never have yet. I think being self conscious about working out in public and looking silly has stopped me in the past. I take myself a lot less seriously now (in a good way) so I suppose it’s time to give it a shot!

yeah dude, definitely give yoga a whirl.  I've only done it at home on dvds but the people I know that go to hot yoga or any yoga classes say its changed their life.  I also recommend jiu jitsu to everyone.  Male or female, its incredible.  The bond you develop with people doing a martial art together is incredible.  It happens quick and you almost instantly feel like family.

[New day, same results.]

@Frank B We all have times where it gets extra tough, or things get extra dark and gloomy.  Just stay patient man, adderall is definitely not the answer which I think you fucking know that man.  They say change happens when the pain of staying the same gets greater than the pain of change... It seems like your at a point where its time to change things up.  I've always said massive action is the cure all.  You are already doing so much right but it seems like its time for a few more radical changes. It could be anything that'll spark a positive mindset shift. Join jiu jitsu and get your kids into it too, cut out alcohol 100% and never drink again, go to a bunch of NA meetings, start a gratitude journal, take up yoga and/or meditation, sign up for a marathon or tough mudder and start training.... any or all of those things could be the turnaround you need.  Can't hurt right? your mood and motivation is already shit right now.  Go get after it buddy, your life and your kids lives depend on it

[7 Month Struggles]

On 1/16/2019 at 6:00 PM, TLNJ2 said:

Hey Tom, 

Stumbled upon your post. I have experienced exactly what you have almost to a T. I'm now 13 months off of adderall and am still experiencing the on and off anxiety, paranoia and anhedonia. It's not as bad as it was earlier on, but whenever I feel like I've beat it, It comes back and reminds me that I haven't. I also had the same obsessive thought of my heart being damaged. I am in very good shape, college athlete and play competitive softball 5/6 days a week. But when my anxiety would kick in, I'd have a burning, pressureized pain my left pec muscle that I was convinced was a heart defect from my adderall use. I went to the cardiologist, ER and regular doctor multiple times. The EKG, Blood pressure, chest x rays and oxygen all came out perfect. But yet I would still experience this uncomfortableness. I know that there is nothing wrong, but somewhere in my mind it still wants to believe there is something there. 

The depersonalization also was terrible for awhile. I know what you mean. I felt like everyone around me was living a normal life and I was stuck in this alternate state. The thought of dating a girl or having a wife and kids one day terrified me. I thought I was crazy and in no way could handle responsibility of anything like that in this state. I still struggle with it sometimes, but not nearly as bad as around the 4-8 month period. 

So anyway, this post of yours is about 2 years old. How are you holding up these days? Have things become much better? I'm taking it day by day and there are definitely more good then bad, but some days are a struggle and I feel like I'm back at square one. 

-TL 

Hey TL

Things have gotten significantly better. I'm finally beyond the obsessed feeling that my heart is damaged.  I had an EKG  several months ago and some other tests and all came back normal.

I have some anxiety and depersonalization but its very fleeting.  

I've become obsessed with lifting weights, practicing jiu jitsu (recommend to everyone) and meditation.  I 100% believe daily meditation helps with the anxiety, depression, and depersonalization.  Without meditation I would latch on to every negative thought or feeling and obsess over it until I spiral into a full blow panic attack.  Meditation has taught me to see the anxiety, recognize it for what it is and kind of detach, if that makes sense.

Anyways, yeah things are much better.  My marriage and family relationships are 1000 times better, I'm open and honest with everyone and no longer have to walk around carrying all the lies that had while in active addiction.  Just not having to ever lie offers such a peace of mind! 

I also still regularly attend NA meetings.  I've been going for about 3 years now.  I don't work the program by the book but I attend meetings on the reg and I've stayed sober so it works for me

Peace! -TJ

[3 years!!!]

12 hours ago, SeanW said:

Man, I’ve been on a two months binge after being clean for 18 months. I’ve given up on life. Im sick and tired of it. I hate myself and I hate life and there’s nothing I can do about it. I just want be dead. I want it to be done. I’m damned if I do damned if I don’t. Nothing about life is fair. I’d rather check out. There’s nothing left here for me. I’m a piece of shit. I’ll never make it out. I fucked for life. If I never get back on here it’s probably because I’m dead. I gave it my best. I really did. I tried and gave it my all. Anyway, peace and love to all even though I don’t even have peace and love anymore. I wish you all the best. In an alternate reality things may be different. Oh well. 

Hey brother, please don't do anything drastic.  One things for sure, we've all felt similar hopeless feelings like you mention here and even when you think theres no fucking chance it'll get better, it fucking can man.  Just one day at a time, keep doing the next right thing and eventually you can pull yourself from hopeless to hopeful.  Get to a narcotics anonymous meeting and either listen or pour your heart out on how your feeling.  You'll be met with love and open arms there

[Withdrawal hell, which supplements worked best for you in the early acute stage]

Sounds like your already on the right track with a multivitamin and magnesium.  Maybe also add in some vitamin D.  I never really found any supplements that made a profound difference.

One of the best things you could do is make it to the gym and do some cardio and weights.  The thing is, your not going to feel like it when your irritable and having mood swings but if you can force yourself there, I think the fog starts to lift much quicker.

[Things better than a high?]

I used to pop adderall and play tennis or pickup football but I felt so robotic and analytical about the game.  Every point was like match point at a major championship.  Adderall caused me to treat those pickup games with such intensity that there was no camaraderie with the people I was playing with.

But intense exercise while sober is fucking awesome.  I love Jiu Jitsu, (recommend it to all) weight lifting, basketball, any cardio really.  You never feel more present than when practicing jiu jitsu. I mean you and another person are trying to choke or armbar one another while defending against the same.  Its kind of hard to worry about anything else in life while doing that.  And then you shake hands afterwards and build a bond like no other.

[Letting Go Completely]

Don't even try to trick yourself into knowing what you'll be doing a few years down the road.  Its okay to say "I'm not sure where I'll be in a few years"  but for today, I don't have to use adderall.  

I don't think too much about adderall anymore, and I firmly believe I'll never put that shit in my body again....But I do occasionally romanticize alcohol/drinking and when I start obsessing about drinking at some future hypothetical event, I just tell myself, I'm not sure if will or won't but I know I don't have to drink TODAY.  Seems to help close the loop of those obsessive thoughts

[Sober November]

cool man, I always love following Joe Rogan and those other guys doing their Sober October bets.  Keep us posted, I'm curious to see how much better you feel after a month off boos.  I gave it up over a year ago and feel awesome.  I know you've already cut back on sugar and processed foods so this should make you feel even healthier 

[One Word Status Update]

DEADLIFTS! 

[I finally need to tell my doctor]

I wouldn't make up any lies.  I'd be 100% honest with him.  There are patient/doctor confidentiality laws that prevent him from running to CPS or anything like that.  As far as I know, he can't flag your name in any system that would prevent you from getting pain pills for a toothache.

I think you'd feel better about it if you told the doc your completely dependent on stimulants and there is no way possible they will ever be beneficial for you anymore.  Most of the time the thing that seems the hardest to do is the thing that needs to be done.

[Doctor appointment today]

On 10/2/2018 at 7:48 PM, KimR said:

I'm overweight. My regular doctor wants to put me on Phentermine. 

I said no, thinking it would be to similar to Adderall.

Did I make the right decision? 

you definitely made the right decision.  Phentermine is super close to adderall but its a nastier/harsher stimulant.  I hated it and still abused while on adderall and for a short time after I kicked adderall.... you don't want to go down that road.  I agree hyper critical that a low carb/ high fat & protein diet would be worth a shot. And try to get to the gym with some type of weight lifting and cardio routine.

[One Word Status Update]

Honest

[Two Years!]

Nothing braggadocios about this! Fucking awesome!  Keep Kicking ass Cheerio!  Appreciate you sharing your experience, strength, and hope.   ✌☮