Frank B

New day, same results.

36 posts in this topic

What more can I do? I eat healthy, work out daily, volunteer to help kids in sports, drink very seldom yet I’m still very unenthusiastic about work which but actually sort of enjoy what I do. It’s been 3 damn years couple months and I don’t feel much has improved over the last 6 months. I just started Wellbutrin again about 2 weeks ago it’s doing very little. I just feel like going to the doctor and saying, “I give up, to be a productive worker again I’m going to have to use adderall.” I know everyone says going back is a mistake hell said it myself many times. But I just don’t know what to do I’ve given this recovery my absolute everything and it’s still a daily struggle and I can’t see anything changing at this point. Hope this does not make new people from wanting to stop I abused heavily for nearly a decade so guess paying the ultimate price which is never actually recovering. I got so mad at myself for just being fucking lazy slapped the fuck out of my face even had a bloody nose, instead of getting motivated to get my ass in gear to focus on work I laid down watched the price is right. For someone as in my physical shape I should not be this lazy unmotivated it’s not normal I can’t deal with this for much longer. 

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I don’t have the answer but I know it’s not Adderall. I sometimes feel the same way as you.  I took for 12 years been off 2 years.  I am so lazy I lounge any chance I get. Energy is so low I think it has to be partly a result of getting older too.   Younger people seem to have more resilience when it comes to getting off Adderall.  You know going back to Adderall is gonna be - they say all your side effects come back right away and you don’t get the honey moon again.  So basically you would just be picking up where you left off in your use. Which was a place that was so bad it made you want to quit.  And you’d be back to square one but have to go through withdrawals all over again. Just skip all that pain and stay off.  

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Going to rant just a bit so I apologize in advance. Sometimes I think that many of you on here have unrealistic expectations of REAL life. Maybe you were on adderall so long that you forgot.  Or maybe you started when you were young and got off when you were more mature. More mature as in older, slower, less filled with youthful energy and enthusiasm.  All the things that people gradually experience as they age but you missed it because you had artificially masked it.  Now you are experiencing it for the first time and well - welcome to the real world. Guess what?  It isn't all roses.  It sucks sometimes. A lot of the times.   Us non-users are lazy, unmotivated, depressed ALL the time too.  Who the heck ever said that work has to be fun and fulfilling.  It's just f'ing  WORK.  You know,  what you do to make money.  That's it.  If you don't hate it that's great but not a requirement.  Good grief!!!  We lay around all weekend watching netflix and not doing shit that we know we should do too.  We have days where where it all seems pointless and hopeless too.   Yes we have good moments too but they come and go.  Life is not one constant stream of energy and motivation.  Yes there are those people that seem to always be happy, motivated and energetic but they are the exception not the norm. And maybe they are faking it a good bit too - putting on a show. Like those people who present a perfect life on facebook.   @Frank B it IS normal for someone in shape to be unmotivated.  One day I may run ten miles, one day I may clean the whole house, and then I may spend several days sitting on the couch on my computer reading in horror and depressed about that thing currently in the white house or wasting hours doing a coloring app on my phone. What isn't normal is endless motivation. But I can tell you one thing that is wonderful about real life these days -  not living with an asshole who is a slave to adderall.  End rant.

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42 minutes ago, oswhid said:

Going to rant just a bit so I apologize in advance. Sometimes I think that many of you on here have unrealistic expectations of REAL life. Maybe you were on adderall so long that you forgot.  Or maybe you started when you were young and got off when you were more mature. More mature as in older, slower, less filled with youthful energy and enthusiasm.  All the things that people gradually experience as they age but you missed it because you had artificially masked it.  Now you are experiencing it for the first time and well - welcome to the real world. Guess what?  It isn't all roses.  It sucks sometimes. A lot of the times.   Us non-users are lazy, unmotivated, depressed ALL the time too.  Who the heck ever said that work has to be fun and fulfilling.  It's just f'ing  WORK.  You know,  what you do to make money.  That's it.  If you don't hate it that's great but not a requirement.  Good grief!!!  We lay around all weekend watching netflix and not doing shit that we know we should do too.  We have days where where it all seems pointless and hopeless too.   Yes we have good moments too but they come and go.  Life is not one constant stream of energy and motivation.  Yes there are those people that seem to always be happy, motivated and energetic but they are the exception not the norm. And maybe they are faking it a good bit too - putting on a show. Like those people who present a perfect life on facebook.   @Frank B it IS normal for someone in shape to be unmotivated.  One day I may run ten miles, one day I may clean the whole house, and then I may spend several days sitting on the couch on my computer reading in horror and depressed about that thing currently in the white house or wasting hours doing a coloring app on my phone. What isn't normal is endless motivation. But I can tell you one thing that is wonderful about real life these days -  not living with an asshole who is a slave to adderall.  End rant.

You think I feel life everyday should be all fucking roses? I’ve never said that or thought that. Been off this shit for 3 years understand that completely. My current state of effort is not productive enough to secure a financial future for my children and definitely in no way going to provide me with a source of income for retirement. I have focused on recovery my body for the last couple years in hopes it would slowly start to reflect in a little more ambition work wise. It has not and I’m at a loss  given you haven’t used yourself maybe you don’t have the right to give your smart ass opinion. 

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@Frank B  Well I've seen it up close and personal.  I figured I would piss you off even though that wasn't my intent.  I know you don't think that life should be roses all the time BUT I have noticed an ongoing theme among a lot of you that sounds like you have forgotten or never experienced adult life without adderall and have unrealistic expectations.  Everyone has financial worries these days.  We are old and have no retirement because of decisions my husband made while on adderall.  I don't have the answer to that but I can tell you that adderall isn't it.  For the record, I admire you for being so blunt and honest in your posts.  I figured you could take it.  :)

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Well, if you don't like how things are now - it's time to change something. What are you going to change? I will say that most of America is struggling to provide a financial future for their children, and not all of them are adderall addicts. Not to take away from your pain or invalidate your feelings, but that complaint in particular doesn't seem unique to us. What I'm unclear about from your post is why you're so unhappy. You're working out, volunteering, raising a family.... like WOW. That all sounds incredible. You should be proud as hell. Those are things I aspire to with 2 years under my belt, so you're setting an example for those of us who wonder if those things will ever be possible for us. Is it depression? Money? Because you mention feeling unmotivated but I'm unsure if that bothers you only because you want to bring home more $. If your cash situation is what's bumming you out, there are certainly ways to address it without filling your brain with toxic chemicals. What would be the next career move for you? It may be time for a switch. Or school. Put a plan in place. Take baby steps. If you can't manage that plan without adderall, it's not the right plan.

Also, I'm not a doctor - but I abused really heavily for years also - and cutting out alcohol and all prescriptions has helped me a lot. Not sure if that's something you want to consider, just sharing my experience.

 

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10 minutes ago, Cheeri0 said:

If you can't manage that plan without adderall, it's not the right plan.

That's pretty much sums it up.

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Good thread folks! Been a little slow around here lately, this is a treat. @Frank B I’m sorry you are struggling brother, I can feel your pain and desperation in your post. I think the other posters on here have provided a lot to think about, but I wanted to add a few things. First, there are ways you can provide for your kids that aren’t financial. Spending time with them, letting them know you care, etc is so much more valuable than anything money can buy. Yes, being able to get them out of financial jams every once in a while is cool, but it isn’t everything. I speak as a young man who had a workaholic father who provided financially, but wasn’t around a whole lot in my teen years. Second, I truly believe happiness and fulfillment is an inside job. Nothing you do, things you buy, or drugs you take can fill the void. You have to decide what you have is enough, there will always be the next thing. It sounds like you have a lot of awesome things going on in your life! Also, it’s been a long and dreary Winter for many of us, that makes the depression so much worse. Remember Spring is coming, bringing with it sunshine and new growth!

@oswhid some of your post came across to me as a release of bottled resentment. Recognizing the limits of your empathy is important. Just as I will never know what it’s like to be a woman, black, crippled, etc, you can’t know what it’s like to be an Adderall addict unless you are. Just a thought, obviously that doesn’t mean your voice isn’t important. I like a lot of what you had to say here, I’m just concerned others will not hear it because of the delivery.

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10 hours ago, Frank B said:

What more can I do? I eat healthy, work out daily, volunteer to help kids in sports, drink very seldom yet I’m still very unenthusiastic about work which but actually sort of enjoy what I do.

@Frank B is it just work that you're unenthusiastic about? or is it more about life in general? i've been struggling with something similar recently, where i'm doing the things "normal" people do, but it doesn't seem to make me happy the way i perceive others to be. it's like i have to try harder to enjoy basic shit like hanging out with friends, family, and of course also work.

i'm fairly convinced that finding a new job and changing my environment will help, but i have this fear that i'll move somewhere else and it doesn't help. i have a pretty cushy, secure job with tons of seniority, but the only time i've ever felt enthusiastic about this place was when i was on Adderall. this job has been tainted by Adderall and i will never have the same energy towards it ever again.

@oswhid  your point is understood. in fact, the entire notion of "life is hard for everyone" is what convinces me everyday that my problems are no longer Adderall related. that being said, the flip side is that we as addicts/users can never un-know the feeling of enjoying productivity for the sake of productivity. we are in a constant battle trying to replicate a feeling that as you say is "unrealistic", and yet we've experienced it, albeit chemically. 

 

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@DrewK15  I hear you.  In my defense I did say a rant was forthcoming.  It had been building for awhile.  But I believe I have every right to express my opinion.  I survived 11 years of adderall hell.  Addiction affects everyone not just the user.  I've lost my financial security, endured years of verbal abuse, probably have ptsd to some degree and have gone through a life time supply of tiny violins listening to the job related reasons for continuing using at the cost of everything else in life:  health, happiness, marriage, relationships, family, intimacy.  I do have empathy even if it didn't come across. I have done everything possible to ease my husband's recovery.  I admit to getting impatient with young people (and even 40 is young to me) complaining about how long recovery takes.   At the risk of sounding like an old coot: What I wouldn't give for my husband and me to be going through this in our 30's and not our 50's and 60's.  

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Rewind the clock to when you were approaching two years, Frank. My advice is basically the same based on my own experience:

You're on the verge of a major breakout. You've felt hopeless before. That was a delusion. Know that intellectually and try to feel it emotionally. This too shall pass. And if your experience is anything like mine, after year 3 you're going to be on a whole new level. 

Good luck. I'm around and at the same # if you want to talk. 

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For me personally when I drink coffee coke or energy drink the next day it feels like I’m withdrawing from adderal again. It exasperates my anxiety depression and anhedonia for a couple days. I just have an intolerance for any stimulant . I have never taken Wellbutrin but I suspect I would have an intolerance to this also because it’s a mild stimulant. Maybe you can try stopping all stimulants for a couple weeks and seeing how your mind/body reacts. I would also stop tobacco ,alcohol or any mood altering chemical and let your brain adjust and reset. Keep surching  for the right solution. I know you know what taking adderall again would do to you. Maybe for you it’s going to take a little bit longer to recover 

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Someone who doesn't know what it's like to go through this shit should never attempt to understand the lack of motivation one feels after having abused the drug. This isn't some exclusive community that you need to earn your stripes in to be part of, but again please don't try to rant about unrealistic expectations of what life is to someone going through this; there are still limitations. We know what life was like before adderall. When people complain about their motivation on here, very rarely are people suggesting they expect their motivation levels to return to adderall-like levels. They're suggesting they wish their motivation was more than non-existent, which is unfortunately the level that most of us feel after quitting.

 

Been awhile, Frank. Nice to see some familiar names on here, as well as lots of new ones. 

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8 minutes ago, Renascido said:

 We know what life was like before adderall.

I expected push back.  That's fine.  My point is that I don't feel that everyone does know this or remembers this especially people who have been on it for years or started very young.  I'm glad you do.  I hope this is a safe space to rant when needed because trust me it's been no picnic from this side either.  I'll try to keep it to a minimum though.

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4 hours ago, oswhid said:

@Frank B  Well I've seen it up close and personal.  I figured I would piss you off even though that wasn't my intent.  I know you don't think that life should be roses all the time BUT I have noticed an ongoing theme among a lot of you that sounds like you have forgotten or never experienced adult life without adderall and have unrealistic expectations.  Everyone has financial worries these days.  We are old and have no retirement because of decisions my husband made while on adderall.  I don't have the answer to that but I can tell you that adderall isn't it.  For the record, I admire you for being so blunt and honest in your posts.  I figured you could take it.  :)

No problem it is just a frustrating situation I obviously do not want to go back on but had to post my issues I’ve been keeping to myself for along time, mainly because I do not want to have newbies see my struggles so far out and make them think quitting is pointless. However until you’ve gone through what we have it’s hard to tell someone like myself say it’s just my age and normal. Definitely more to it than that I’m 40 not 60 i experienced adult life before adderall grant it much younger. 

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@Frank B I’ve been feeling much the same way for months now too. And like you I didn’t want to come across like the last few years of recovery have been pointless. I’m hopeful that warmer weather and sunshine will help. For the record I think all that you’ve accomplished makes you a complete badass. I’m blessed to have a wife that encourages me when I feel like a complete pos. She remembers the decade we were married pre-Adderall, and reminds me I’m gaining ground on my old self. Without that constant reminder I would be a very high risk of relapse... She was also an angel for the 15 years I was on Adderall. What’s interesting is that the first 10 years of our marriage I was providing a nearly daily encouragement to her as she delt with her mother’s alcoholism a declining health.  Strange how things work out. @oswhid Can you shed any light on why your husband turned to Adderall so late in life? My experience is that adults that turn to Adderall typically feel they are unable to keep pace with the expectations of life or more specifically, the expectations of others...

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@William   It was a stupid fluke and I blame myself.   Not a day goes by that I don't wish I could go back to one moment in time and not do what I did.   When our son was in 3rd grade he was having "behavior problems" according to his teacher even though his grades were fine.   She said he wouldn't stay in his seat and had problems paying attention.  Turned out he just needed glasses and was getting up to see what was going on and also was missing things that she pointed out because he couldn't see.  But before we figured that out, we took him to a doctor who, you guess it, prescribed adderall.  We got a prescription for I think 5mg ir.  I really wasn't that thrilled about putting him on drugs so he never even finished the first months supply and we never refilled.  Meanwhile we figured out the real problem.  But that bottle with 2 or 3 pills stayed in our drawer for 5 years.  One day my husband who was 49 at the time complained about not being able to stay focused on his work because of constantly being interrupted by people.  I remember it like yesterday - it was a beautiful spring day.  I walked over to the drawer and handed him the bottle and in my ignorance said "try this see if it helps". Apparently it was love at first pill.  I had no idea that that one act would alter the course of our lives forever.  As I said, not a day goes by that I don't relive that moment and want to weep. I constantly imagine walking over to the sink and putting it down the disposal instead.

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@Frank B We all have times where it gets extra tough, or things get extra dark and gloomy.  Just stay patient man, adderall is definitely not the answer which I think you fucking know that man.  They say change happens when the pain of staying the same gets greater than the pain of change... It seems like your at a point where its time to change things up.  I've always said massive action is the cure all.  You are already doing so much right but it seems like its time for a few more radical changes. It could be anything that'll spark a positive mindset shift. Join jiu jitsu and get your kids into it too, cut out alcohol 100% and never drink again, go to a bunch of NA meetings, start a gratitude journal, take up yoga and/or meditation, sign up for a marathon or tough mudder and start training.... any or all of those things could be the turnaround you need.  Can't hurt right? your mood and motivation is already shit right now.  Go get after it buddy, your life and your kids lives depend on it

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@oswhid sorry to hear how it happened. Hopefully things continue to be on the mend. It’s not unusual for people to be exposed to Adderall for the first time in equally innocuous ways. 

 

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1 hour ago, oswhid said:

@William   It was a stupid fluke and I blame myself.   Not a day goes by that I don't wish I go back to one moment in time and not do what I did.   When our son was in 3rd grade he was having "behavior problems" according to his teacher even though his grades were fine.   She said he wouldn't stay in his seat and had problems paying attention.  Turned out he just needed glasses and was getting up to see what was going on and also was missing things that she pointed out because he couldn't see.  But before we figured that out, we took him to a doctor who, you guess it, prescribed adderall.  We got a prescription for I think 5mg ir.  I really wasn't that thrilled about putting him on drugs so he never even finished the first months supply and we never refilled.  Meanwhile we figured out the real problem.  But that bottle with 2 or 3 pills stayed in our drawer for 5 years.  One day my husband who was 49 at the time complained about not being able to stay focused on his work because of constantly being interrupted by people.  I remember it like yesterday - it was a beautiful spring day.  I walked over to the drawer and handed him the bottle and in my ignorance said "try this see if it helps". Apparently it was love at first pill.  I had no idea that that one act would alter the course of our lives forever.  As I said, not a day goes by that I don't relive that moment and want to weep. I constantly imagine walking over to the sink and putting it down the disposal instead.

How I got hooked my kid was given it I took it got him off thought side effects way to harsh for kids but then went and got my own prescription it was love at first pill also.  I recall immediately gutting my bathroom for a remodel that I was wanting to do but kept putting off. I stayed up for days working on it bathroom turned out great but yeah wasn’t worth getting hooked on the pills. 

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1 hour ago, Tom23Jones said:

@Frank B We all have times where it gets extra tough, or things get extra dark and gloomy.  Just stay patient man, adderall is definitely not the answer which I think you fucking know that man.  They say change happens when the pain of staying the same gets greater than the pain of change... It seems like your at a point where its time to change things up.  I've always said massive action is the cure all.  You are already doing so much right but it seems like its time for a few more radical changes. It could be anything that'll spark a positive mindset shift. Join jiu jitsu and get your kids into it too, cut out alcohol 100% and never drink again, go to a bunch of NA meetings, start a gratitude journal, take up yoga and/or meditation, sign up for a marathon or tough mudder and start training.... any or all of those things could be the turnaround you need.  Can't hurt right? your mood and motivation is already shit right now.  Go get after it buddy, your life and your kids lives depend on it

Actually been doing boxing and teaching kids also. My son is also learning karate and jiu jitsu I’ve talked to his teacher about learning some myself awesome guy went to Japan to study martial arts was a ex cop who taught the force hand to hand combat. He also got to train with Royce Gracie guys legit knows his stuff. But yeah anyways I just see all these highly motivated successful people kicking life’s ass and I’m still just getting by, tired of getting by I want more and I’ve sat on the sidelines for a couple years. I know going back won’t make me better but what will just tired of myself not going for it. 

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I will say one thing: I understand that addiction affects everyone, but unless you are an addict yourself, you will NEVER, and I mean NEVER, understand our daily struggles. 

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@oswhid of course you have the right to hop on here to vent, share your experience, and express your opinion. When I was new to this site I read many of your old posts and got a lot out of them. I'm just struggling with some of what you wrote earlier today. It gave me a reflex to defend some of the newer members on this site, as this should be a safe space for them to share their feelings as well.  You mentioned your rant had been building for a while, yet it was directed at people sharing on this site rather than your own experience. I can only imagine the pain of being married to one of us for 11 years of addiction, and I guess you can take that out on Frank and the rest of us if you want to, but why? Looking back I only really see love and support for you coming from members on this site.

On another note, it's heartbreaking to read about the start of your husband's addiction. I'm sure you've heard it a million times by now, but your husband's addiction is not your fault. I hope someday you find a way to rid yourself of that burden.

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@DrewK15  I see that what I wrote came out wrong.  Even though it came out wrong I just get so upset (not mad) when I feel that someone may have unrealistic expectations and use that as a reason to relapse.  My hate for this drug has no limit and I think it got the best of me today.  My husband is doing really well but he does not like to talk about it much.   I think I just needed a release today and seeing Frank waver brought up the suppressed terror I have of my husband relapsing though there has not been any signs.

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Frank, whatever you do, do NOT get back on Adderall. I’m also at three years and I’m lazy and unmotivated as fuck! I barely get by at work and all I do at night is play video games and watch YouTube. I can’t wait for warmer weather so I can go running again. I still read this forum a few times a week just to remind myself of the horror of withdrawals. I don’t know if you have access but I got some cannabis and it’s been helping me to relax and not be so depressed. It’s not addictive at all because I can take it or leave it. It definitely doesn’t motivate you but it does change your perspective on life. In any case, I know how tough you are but I totally understand what you’re going through. I sound fine now but next week I could hit a  wall and want to get Adderall and I’ll be in here sharing with you all too, just don’t get Adderall, it is poison.

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