Question about Lows for those over 1 Year

[EricP]

As I approach 8 months I have seen improvements however the motivation thing still sucks and while I have some weeks in a row that I do pretty good I still find that I often out of nowhere hit ugly lows that nearly put me on the couch for a couple days and take about a week to crawl out of to somewhat normal functioning levels. 

I guess my question is to those who have made it past 1yr + do you still have random explainable lows like this? What is normal and what do I have to look forward to?

I guess I am just a bit discouraged as I had a good couple months where I felt some great progress and then my recent unexplained low was almost as debilitating as if I rewound a few months. 

[Frank B]

Yes at two years I do and currently in a very bad slump now. Kind of feel like this is hopefully one big final test it’s been very harsh. If adderall did not stop working for me I’d go back not even think about the side effects. But I know it stopped I could not focus or do anything the last couple months and know it would be the same going back. Even knowing that it still gets extremely frustrating like my God why can’t I have more motivation and happiness in my life? Why does everyday have to be a fucking challenge? When will the payoff come?

 Just a side note I abused addy very hard for nearly 10yrs plus used crazy amount of pain pills for the last couple on top of them. So hopefully my journey is not the norm and hopefully most of you move on much quicker vs me. I really hate saying how I truly feel on here these days. I don’t want to  deter someone new quitting it’s not worth the fight. It is hard and I believe it really depends how much and how long you used. 

[Danquit]

I’m at 20 months and I remember at 8-9 months I felt I had come a long way but there were definitely weeks where I literally felt like I had just quit but then somehow I managed to survive by taking it one day at a time. Anything in the first year is considered early recovery where PAWS is still strong. Even coming up on two years I feel like there are still days where I can’t do anything without forcing myself and it makes me question if it’s stull withdrawal or if this is as good as it gets. I have to be very careful because in these lows I sometimes have a thought of what if I got some addies how would I be? And that is some dangerous thoughts for me. You will get through the lows if you just put one foot in front of the other and get by one more day.

The fight is worth it but you will have to fight hard. It will hurt more than anything you have ever faced in your life, but you have to keep fighting. It gets better and easier in the next year. You are doing great at 8 months, one year is right around the corner. At 9 months you’ll notice a positive change by each person’s timeline is different.

[SeanW]

@Frank B man I think about my pain pill use often and I may be wrong and don't want take away from anyone struggles but I think that shit was a particularly shitty combo for the brain with adderall and made the recovery a lot worse. Like it was double the high, double the damage. It stopped working for me in the end too couldn't focus or anything. Don't want to be discouraging just interesting to see someone else who was using pain pills with it. 

[SeanW]

I'm right there with you Eric I'm at 9.5 months and I haven't felt much improvement in quite sometime but I just keep telling myself it'll get better. I lost any motivation to workout but recently have forced myself to play sports and at first I'm not into it but afterwards I'll feel a tiny bit better. Looking forward to a year 

[SeanW]

Don't let me down man, been following your post. We're in this together haha pretty much at the same point in recovery

[Frank B]

16 minutes ago, SeanW said:

I'm right there with you Eric I'm at 9.5 months and I haven't felt much improvement in quite sometime but I just keep telling myself it'll get better. I lost any motivation to workout but recently have forced myself to play sports and at first I'm not into it but afterwards I'll feel a tiny bit better. Looking forward to a year 

What’s so weird with me is I’m obsssed with working out now. I really don’t get it today instead of doing what I should office work all day

 

38 minutes ago, SeanW said:

@Frank B man I think about my pain pill use often and I may be wrong and don't want take away from anyone struggles but I think that shit was a particularly shitty combo for the brain with adderall and made the recovery a lot worse. Like it was double the high, double the damage. It stopped working for me in the end too couldn't focus or anything. Don't want to be discouraging just interesting to see someone else who was using pain pills with it. 

Yep it sucks quitting them both. But a huge reason that keeps me from ever giving in. Even if I got another legal addy script I know giving up on quitting the pain pills would follow. Given you can’t get pain pills easily like addy I’d resort to finding a source and leading that lifestyle again. Hell I’d go through customers medicine cabinet just to maybe take a couple not thinking they would miss it if the expectation date was old. I did some crazy dumb shit risked everything for a couple pills was a complete slave.

This is why Im thankful for this site gets me talking and recall why I’ve made this very hard journey.

[SeanW]

Did that same shit too. Crazy looking back how I lived for that high and the shit I would do for it 

[SleepyStupid]

12 hours ago, Danquit said:

Even coming up on two years I feel like there are still days where I can’t do anything without forcing myself and it makes me question if it’s stull withdrawal or if this is as good as it gets.

i had this same feeling around the 2 year mark, and it led to me relapsing for a month or so. honestly, its hard to me to say what i'd be feeling like now if I hadn't started back on Wellbutrin..

but for better or worse, i don't blame adderall for it anymore. i think "normal" people struggle with feeling low from time to time, but the difference with us is that we're constantly wondering whether it's cause we're still in recovery, whether we've permanently damaged ourselves, etc.  i think that mentality amplifies these lows and makes it harder to deal with.

unfortunately there is no way to actually measure the levels of dopamine in our brains, or measure the sensitivity of our receptors.. but i think the reason the medical community says our withdrawals should only last a few months is because based on everything they know about the science of our brains, those chemicals SHOULD re-balance themselves fairly quickly. if that's actually true, does it mean it PAWS is "all in our head's?" (i appreciate the irony here lol)

EDIT:  actually after googling my statement above, it turns out you CAN test neurotransmitter levels, BUT i'm not entirely sold on this yet.

https://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/neurotransmitter_testing_what_can_it_do_for_you.html

[EricP]

18 hours ago, Frank B said:

Yes at two years I do and currently in a very bad slump now. Kind of feel like this is hopefully one big final test it’s been very harsh. If adderall did not stop working for me I’d go back not even think about the side effects. But I know it stopped I could not focus or do anything the last couple months and know it would be the same going back. Even knowing that it still gets extremely frustrating like my God why can’t I have more motivation and happiness in my life? Why does everyday have to be a fucking challenge? When will the payoff come?

 Just a side note I abused addy very hard for nearly 10yrs plus used crazy amount of pain pills for the last couple on top of them. So hopefully my journey is not the norm and hopefully most of you move on much quicker vs me. I really hate saying how I truly feel on here these days. I don’t want to  deter someone new quitting it’s not worth the fight. It is hard and I believe it really depends how much and how long you used. 

Frank, I am sorry you are in a rough patch. In one sense for me this is a bummer for all of us however also reassuring we all have similar symptoms so can relate and support each other. My bad slump here just lasted a little over a week, I like you started skipping work to workout which helped however I still don't want to do anything else when I am done...

 

13 hours ago, Danquit said:

I’m at 20 months and I remember at 8-9 months I felt I had come a long way but there were definitely weeks where I literally felt like I had just quit but then somehow I managed to survive by taking it one day at a time. Anything in the first year is considered early recovery where PAWS is still strong. Even coming up on two years I feel like there are still days where I can’t do anything without forcing myself and it makes me question if it’s stull withdrawal or if this is as good as it gets. I have to be very careful because in these lows I sometimes have a thought of what if I got some addies how would I be? And that is some dangerous thoughts for me. You will get through the lows if you just put one foot in front of the other and get by one more day.

The fight is worth it but you will have to fight hard. It will hurt more than anything you have ever faced in your life, but you have to keep fighting. It gets better and easier in the next year. You are doing great at 8 months, one year is right around the corner. At 9 months you’ll notice a positive change by each person’s timeline is different.

Thank for the encouragement Danquit, Yes many days are one foot in front of another. Some days are a blur and I show up and say and do what I need to to get by with work and people in my life however at the end of the day it's kind of a blur. Some days are clearer than others, the deep lows are scary as we are all hoping for linear PAWS progress which just doesn't seem to happen. Its like a bad stock or watching bitcoin haha... Depending on stress and emotion our motivation and clarity can greatly change daily. I definitely find myself quickly in a fog once I am faced with a few stressful triggers in a day it's like it just hits me...

[EricP]

50 minutes ago, sleepystupid said:

 

EDIT:  actually after googling my statement above, it turns out you CAN test neurotransmitter levels, BUT i'm not entirely sold on this yet.

https://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/neurotransmitter_testing_what_can_it_do_for_you.html

I did one of these tests and yes dopamine was low and norepinephrine was even lower which from my reading norepinephrine is produced primarily by dopamine so will always be lower. I took this information to two neurologists and they both shrugged it off saying there just inst enough known about these tests and their accuracy in urine... My primary doc asked for a copy however didn't know what to say either.

There are homeopathic doctors that believe in these tests and one I saw here locally wanted me to take over the counter Muccuna Purens (natural L-Dopa). I bought a bottle and tried a couple times however after reading further its connection to treating movement disorders like Parkinson's etc my fear was depending on it and again having something that requires increased doses and becomes ineffective over time. I can say it seemed to take a little edge off however I did not take long enough or near even the quantity I was told to take. Safety of this supplement long term is unclear to me. 

It would be interesting however if more of us here did take these tests to see if there is any consistency in the outcomes, I would be happy to post mine from a few months ago. The Neurologist that I like said the biggest issue with not having answers is that there is no one doing true studies about people like us who quit adderall so they have little information on what to do to help... Usually docs just try to fill your script of find a replacement. 

[SleepyStupid]

4 minutes ago, EricP said:

I did one of these tests and yes dopamine was low and norepinephrine was even lower which from my reading norepinephrine is produced primarily by dopamine so will always be lower. I took this information to two neurologists and they both shrugged it off saying there just inst enough known about these tests and their accuracy in urine... My primary doc asked for a copy however didn't know what to say either.

yea, that's about what i expected. im kinda curious how they would have arrived at a normal baseline for these chemicals if the method they're using is inaccurate to begin with. could be one of those things where everyone has a low something level and the confirmation bias kicks in, "that's the reason i'm so something!"  

 

[Frank B]

Having good day today hopefully out of that slump for awhile. I’m glad to see more people engaging on here hate when I visit and it’s been days since someone wrote anything.

[EricP]

6 minutes ago, Frank B said:

Having good day today hopefully out of that slump for awhile. I’m glad to see more people engaging on here hate when I visit and it’s been days since someone wrote anything.

Glad to hear you feeling better, I am doing a little better also just tend to fade a bit in the afternoon. Hoping to hit the gym tonight a snap out of it.

I agree on engaging, there seems to be a lot of lurkers that read and don't post... Which is fine however the more we talk about this stuff the more we can help support each other and put the low days behind us. 

[Frank B]

18 minutes ago, EricP said:

Glad to hear you feeling better, I am doing a little better also just tend to fade a bit in the afternoon. Hoping to hit the gym tonight a snap out of it.

I agree on engaging, there seems to be a lot of lurkers that read and don't post... Which is fine however the more we talk about this stuff the more we can help support each other and put the low days behind us. 

Yes I see how many people view post but seems like only a couple of us say much. Don’t be shy this isn’t Facebook we don’t know who you are. 

[BeamMeUpScotty]

Stopped 4 years ago, still experiencing lows now and then, but nothing compared to the first year! It becomes better, you just have to hang in there. The lack of motivation is still there though, but I’m now actively trying to improve that by starting vipassana meditation.

I guess it’s a bit difficult to compare personal experiences, but I always had a focus problem (but lot’s of motivation) and abused adderall for 7 years. In the beginning I used a combination of noopept and rhodiola rosea (a herb, don’t know the English name), which really helped a lot. But I just didn’t want to use any kind of pills anymore, so in the end, the thing that helped me most with decreasing the amount and levels of the lows, was becoming addicted to working out! I train crossfit 7 times a week, it gives me a dopamine boost which usually lasts many hours. Sorry if I use weird grammar or sentences, I’m from  Europe.