Cassie

YAY! It's official now In the beginning, I made to-do lists with just one or two things on it. It was easy enough to handle and if I did more then it was just a bonus!

A good book I read once about depression is called "Get it Done When You're Depressed". The gist of it is that sometimes motivation follows actions, but often times it doesn't come at all, and you have to get things done in spite of that. So when you do things, instead of motivation being the impetus or the reward, the reward is more like, "oh, I did this and it wasn't as impossible as I thought it would be when I begrudgingly started. Maybe the next thing I do won't be as impossible either." It has some good strategies for working with your depression, rather than against it by "thinking positive" and other things that don't really work when you're depressed. Your depression will definitely get better the longer you are sober though as well. 4 months is pretty early on.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/breaking-bad-ends-with-reveal-that-whole-series-wa,34036/

That sucks, I feel your pain. Hasn't it only been like 3 months though? I know it sucks but think of how little time that is to be sober after 12 years...it's gonna take some serious time. You're doing great.

Before I had a prescription I took Adderall recreationally for about 2 years. A friend would just give me extra pills that he didn't take that month. I would take one or two 20mg per week. I remember during those times thinking how crazy it would be to take Adderall every day, considering how intense it was. But, then I got a prescription and my body just adapted to daily use so quickly...scary.

All illegal drugs were once legal medicine...including heroin. Anatomy of an Epidemic is a great book - I'll have to check out the other one. Thanks! I remember reading in Anatomy of an Epidemic that when they actually measured serotonin levels in depressed people's brains, they were all over the place. Some were low, some were high and most were in the average range.

Welcome to the forums. I can tell you have the desire to quit and you realize how Adderall has negatively affected you. Can I share with you a few things that helped me break the psychological addiction and gain confidence (not right away but in time)? 1) Write a list of everything negative about Adderall (i.e. took away my confidence, made me antisocial, etc) and always have it on hand to read. This was a suggestion from InRecovery on these forums. Keep adding to the list whenever you think of something new. After a year I was still adding to the list. The reason? The further away you get from Adderall, the more you will only remember the good, honeymoon phase. You have to constantly remind yourself of the bad so you don't romanticize it. 2) Write a list of the 10 best times in your life. Describe what you were doing, who you were with and how you felt, in vivid detail. Look over the list and really remember these experiences. I got this exercise from a book and it's one of the only self help type things that has really helped me. When I made the list, I realized that none of these experiences involved Adderall or drugs of any kind. They all involved being with people I really cared about and new experiences, like traveling to foreign countries. It's impossible to avoid thinking about the past - we're adults, not babies. So, we need to build a library of positive memories as a go-to. 3) Realize that it will take time for your brain chemistry to repair, and much of that is beyond your control. It's like the serenity prayer - accept the things you cannot change, courage to change the things you can, and wisdom to know the difference. 4) Accept that some things in life are boring, like work and studying for tests. You may never be able to make studying boring topics "inspiring and captivating" without the use of a drug. Living without Adderall means relearning to get through these things despite them being boring, instead of trying (frustratingly) to change the nature of the tasks and how you feel about them. I think sometimes we want to change, but are really vague about how to go about it, and then we get frustrated with our progress. "Think outside the box," Let life come to you, Redefine yourself" This advice to yourself in your post sounds good, but what does it mean? It's just platitudes, really. The more specific ideas you have to quit and not relapse, the more successful I believe you'll be. I think moving in with your sister in a different state is a great idea. I have a friend who quit meth by moving to Utah to live with his sister for a year. He said he could not have gotten clean if he hadn't completely removed himself from his environment for awhile. That sounds like a great plan.

I was cleaning up my bookmarks on my favorites folder and saw this article I had bookmarked a while back. It's a brief history of amphetamine epidemics throughout history, written by Nicholas Rasmussen, author of the great book On Speed. If you've never read the book, this article is a good intro to it. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2377281/ I think every doctor who prescribes this poison should heed these points from the article: "By about 1960, widespread consumption had begun to make amphetamine’s negative health consequences more evident. Amphetamine psychosis had already been observed in the 1930s among long-term narcoleptic users of the drug, and individual case reports mounted during the 1940s and early 1950s." "Evidence was also emerging around 1960 that amphetamine is truly addictive, instead of merely “habituating” like caffeine, as leading pharmacologists had asserted when the drug was first introduced." "When a drug is treated not only as a legal medicine but as a virtually harmless one, it is difficult to make a convincing case that the same drug is terribly harmful if used nonmedically. This is what happened in the 1960s and is presumably happening today. Thus, to end their rampant abuse, amphetamines had to be made strictly controlled substances and their prescription sharply curtailed. Today, amphetamines are widely accepted as safe even for small children, and this return of medical normalization inevitably undermines public health efforts to limit amphetamine abuse."

I read this as, "Also, I forgot about the bath salts.." LOL.

Make sure you cut off your supply too (your doctor). Otherwise it's too tempting to go back when you're feeling shitty, and you know that a pill will make you feel relieved instantly. Your prescribing doctor is not your ally in quitting Adderall. Remember, your doctor doesn't think amphetamines are harmful or addictive, otherwise he/she would not prescribe them. But you know better because you know the damage they have done to YOU. Successfully quitting means removing your access to the drug and the drug pusher. Also, if you didn't genuinely have ADD before you started taking Adderall, you'll sure as fuck have it when you quit. And if you did have it, it will be a thousand times worse than before. Let's call it iatrogenic ADD. That's why it's important to not relapse and give your brain time to recover from this dopamine deficiency. Some books that I found helpful to read were "On Speed: The Many Lives of Amphetamine" by Nicholas Rasmussen and "Anatomy of an Epidemic" by Robert Whitaker. Good luck with your quit!

Not only is that appalling but also incredibly stupid to advertise to strangers. They might as well put an ad on Craigslist and lead the cops right to their dorm room.

I didn't even ask about the beta blockers. I'm just going to work on ignoring all my natural instincts and telling the interviewers exactly what they want to hear, while feigning enthusiasm in the process. When I got my last job, I was so desperate for a job at the time I practically begged for the job several times during the interview. I got the job, so people must like that. It's like metaphorically sucking their dick. So, I think if it's hard to be enthusiastic, be desperate, and it will come across the same manic way, which the interviewer will then interpret as 'passion'. I should be an interview coach.

There is a supplements thread on the forums that you can check out. I took 500 mg l-tyrosine some days in the beginning and some other supps, but I can't say anything made a noticeable difference vs. days I didn't take them. In hindsight, I wasted a lot of money buying supplements trying in vain to deny to myself that the only real cure here is time. If you eat a healthy diet with lots of protein, fruit and vegetables, that should contain all the vitamins and minerals your body needs. You could also take a multivitamin.

Good luck! There is no regimen - everyone is different. Listen to your body, when to eat, when to exercise. Forcing yourself to exercise at a certain time for a specific length of time is going to make you miserable during this period when your motivation is shot. You will be miserable for a while - you just need to get through it. Easiest way to get through it is with distractions. For me this meant spending many hours watching series on Netflix - How I Met Your Mother, Weeds and Breaking Bad were some of my favorites.

I didn't mean you were looking for a high, just that you won't feel wellbutrin or other supplements 'kick in', the way you would Adderall. I remember when I first quit, how desperate I was to find a magic supplement or energy drink to instantly make me feel better. But quitting amphetamines isn't like that. There is no quick fix to feeling better, just a very slow wait as your brain recovers from the chemical imbalance you put it through. And depression is a huge side effect of quitting the Adderall. I'm not saying this to discourage or scare you, I just think it's important to understand that while quitting Adderall, you will go through a period of serious discomfort that you can't medicate away. It is 'paying your dues' for the addiction, as quit-once says.

Why don't you take 150 mg and see how you feel? I assume you have the 100 mg SR pills. You can cut them in half and it retains the release mechanism. I used to take 50 mg Wellbutrin/day by cutting the 100mg pills. Wellbutrin will probably make the Adderall withdrawal less unpleasant. You say you can't 'feel the effect' of 100mg - well, Wellbutrin's not going to get you high, just remember.

Somewhat related to this topic: A while back when I was talking to my husband about being nervous to start a new job without Adderall, he said, "You'll either like the new job or not. You'll either be good at it or you won't." He's always saying really simple but profound things like that. Adderall lied to us by making us think we enjoyed everything and were amazing at everything. If we don't like things or we're not good at some things, it's not a personal failing. It's life.

Cool video - you seem very committed to quitting!

Weaning is the way to go...if you're not addicted. If you're addicted, and especially if you're abusing, weaning will be impossible because the drug is more powerful than your willpower to resist it. You will be unable to resist taking more if it is available - that's how addiction hijacks your reward system. You have seen this play out many times. It's all or nothing, you said it yourself. You can quit cold turkey. There is no danger in it. Look at it this way: if you went to rehab you wouldn't be slowly weaned off Adderall - they would confiscate your bottle and bye, bye Adderall. You will feel tired and depressed and crappy for a while, so it's best to arrange the initial crash when you have time off work to do nothing. Recovery takes a long time, but trust me, it's doable if you want to get sober and get rid of this horrible addiction. I don't think you'll find any longtime successful quitter on this site that didn't quit cold turkey (anyone who actually ever took more than prescribed, that is). We all had to quit cold turkey because we failed at weaning. And quitting also meant cutting off our supplier so we couldn't easily get a refill.

Yes, that sounds like the same stuff - it's a heart medication but used off label for performance anxiety. Sounds like it was not a good experience for you.

Thank you for your kind words. I had an interview today, my first in about a month, and I was excited about it until the word vomit came up. I am interviewing for jobs that are different from my last one so there is always so much justifying why I want to work in a different field and blah blah blah, it's exhausting. The reason I was asking about beta blockers is because from what I heard, they don't alter your mental state. They prevent adrenaline from flowing to your heart, so it mitigates the physical effects of anxiety, like rapid heartbeat, jitters, dry mouth etc...the things I tend to exhibit only in job interviews (I have no problems with anxiety in life otherwise). I know that musicians and actors use them before performances. Regardless of whether I try them or not, I think the closer I get to running out of money the better I will perform in interviews because I will have desperation on my side.

Has anyone ever taken a beta blocker before a job interview or another stressful event? The more job interviews I go on, the more anxious I get during them and I end up over-talking. I give too wordy answers to questions and sometimes jumble my words. I think it's costing me the jobs. No matter how much I tell myself to be calm and concise before the interview, I end up word vomiting all over the place and I can't seem to curtail it! I have a dr. appt tomorrow and I was thinking of asking for some beta blockers to take before the interviews. I've heard they're used for performance anxiety this way. Has anyone ever had experience with one? P.S. I'm not interested in anti-anxiety pills like Xanax. I don't want to risk being mentally slower during an interview. The only time I've ever taken a benzo was Valium before a surgical procedure.

If you want to help people, can you do some pro bono work on the side or something? I think a lot of people go into law thinking they're going to help people and are disenfranchised when they realize that there are only a few environmental law jobs but tons of jobs defending BP, or whatever the appropriate metaphor would be to your field of law. I remember a few years ago I used to go through resumes for people applying for sales jobs at the financial company I worked for, and there were a ton of lawyers. So, I don't think it's just you - I think a lot of lawyers hate their jobs and end up changing careers. I don't think you have to be a lawyer forever if you don't want to. In the meantime, maybe you could get a dog now that you work from home. It would definitely help with the loneliness and give your brain a dopamine boost. And a dog is a good conversation starter when you meet people out on walks or at the dog park.

I've been to a couple NA meetings here and there, but never done the steps. I'm introverted and feel goofy sitting through those kinds of meetings and listening to people whose lives were more fucked up than mine will ever be. I've been sober over a year and a half now. As far as Adderall addiction being different - it's not really any different from meth addiction. If you tell people you were addicted to amphetamines they will assume you're referring to either meth or Adderall. If you have former meth addicts in your meetings they are good to talk to because they have the same recovery issues as you - much different from alcoholics for example.

I was going to say something like this too. You can't lose years of your life, because even though you were on Adderall, you still grew and changed simply due to the passage of time.