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Cassie
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Posts posted by Cassie
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Congrats, quit once! It's funny, when I quit it seemed like you and inrecovery were eons ahead of me in the recovery process. Now that I'm at 1.5 years I feel like we're all sort of on the same wavelength. Good for you for staying off speed and the cigs.
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Based on your story the step down method isn't going to work for you. It only works for people that have never abused the drug. If you've ever taken more than your prescribed dose, you know what more feels like and you will give into that voice that says "just a little more" whenever you feel like shit, which will be frequently. The addiction will be too strong. Yes, cold turkey is torturous, but not as torturous as fighting easily accessible temptation multiple times a day in addition to going through withdrawals. I needed to completely cut off my access to the drug to quit, and I think all of us who are successfully sober will tell you the same thing. I felt like complete shit for the first 3 months. Honestly, day 6 and day 60 felt no different to me. But you only have to go through the first crappy few months once and then it will get a little easier. Think of it as an investment in your future.
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The problem is that anyone can become addicted to amphetamines after long term daily use, regardless of whether or not they have an addictive personality. Look at how easily people can get addicted to painkillers. You could have a legitimate injury with lingering pain, take painkillers for a couple years, and then try to stop taking them but oh, you can't because you're addicted. I really think adderall addiction can happen to anyone, that's why it's so scary.I believe that ADHD/ ADD is a legitimate diagnosis and that amphetamines do, in fact, help -- for the non-addict.
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Thanks for the replies. Today I finally had the courage to put in my notice at work! My last day is in a month. I have been afraid to quit a job I hate because it's easy and I can slack off. I have been nervous to get a new job and perform off Adderall. But I can't stand an easy job with no structure anymore. I want to be busier and more challenged. So, I'm making some progress here.
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My energy level started to improve around 4 months.
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You should realize that if you were 'bubbly and energetic and fun' before adderall, you will be again. It just takes time. Like, a year or more. People really underestimate the length of time it takes for the brain to repair itself after long term stimulant use, especially if you're not in your teens or 20s anymore. So either you wait it out, or go back to taking speed, which will very likely lead to diminishing returns over time. I think you need to give it at least a year to see whether you are truly better off with or without adderall. If I hadnt, I would have just kept relapsing over and over again. Speed would lift anyone's mood, give them a boost. It's the long term costs to the psyche you need to consider. Just my two cents.
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This question is for the long timers: How did you get your confidence back after Adderall? I've been sober a year and a half now, and I still have very little confidence in myself and my abilities. It's not a matter of "accomplish things and self-confidence will follow" because if that were the case I would have confidence. Instead, my confidence/self-esteem level isn't much different than it was say, a year ago. So, it's something deeper. This hang up is really bothering me because there is just something missing internally, something that was there before Adderall and hasn't yet returned. Can anyone relate?
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True, studies show that all luminosity games do is make you better at luminosity games. You're better off learning new things often and having novel experiences, in my opinion.Lumosity is just a fancy expensive app that works the brain the same way crossword puzzles and other mental puzzles do.
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My husband quit with the patch. He is a big proponent of that method. I have another friend who used Chantix. He said it gave him weird dreams but that he didn't want to smoke at all while taking it.MFA,
That's true, and you're right. To be honest with you, I don't know how I will give up smoking. Smoking kills, ages you and is just plain gross. I'd like to give the ecig a shot.
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By that logic you should feel guilty about taking klonopin too, because that's also a mind altering substance that people can get addicted to. Do you? If not, I don't see why you would feel guilty for being an occasional social drinker. My husband and I each have a beer or glass of wine when we get home from work. One drink a day actually has health benefits. I don't feel guilty about having a beer or two because I don't have a problem with alcohol. I don't have a problem with alcohol because I don't like getting drunk and having hangovers.It's as simple as that.
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I think I'm performing as well, if not better, mentally as I did pre-adderall, BUT...it's taken a year and a half to feel this way. You're not brain damaged, you're just expecting too much too soon, in my opinion.
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I was on adderall for one year, then vyvanse for the next four. A year and a half sober and I almost feel back to normal.
Vyvanse is an extended release amphetamine. Just as addictive, just as easy to abuse. Like Ashley said, it's like replacing beer with wine.
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I can relate to you very much. I have also been sober for 16 months and feel lost a lot of the time. I keep putting off quitting my job that I hate because I don't know how to begin looking for a new one. I mean, a job search is overwhelming when you don't even know what you're looking for. I have had a few different careers and none of them have held my interest for long. Whenever I ask friends or family what they think I should do with my life, the answer is always some variation of, "You're good at everything, so you can do whatever you want!" Uh, thanks, but that doesn't help on the decision-making front. It's hard when you don't feel drawn to anything in particular, and you love learning but aren't interested in mastery or being a specialist of some sort.
As for advice, I think the best thing you can do for both guilt and self disccovery is to learn to meditate, and do it every day. You can't change what happened in the past, but you can change how you relate to it, and that's where meditation helps. You can learn to dis-identify will some of those negative thoughts. For self-discovery, I think meditation helps with clarity, looking inward instead of out (i.e. Internet) to get in touch with yourself. The more we think about our interests or read self help books, the more confused we tend to get. Having said that, there is a 'diamond in the rough' book I read recently that I thought was interesting for self discovery purposes, called 'Who am I? The 16 Basic Desires that Motivate our Actions and Define our Personalities": http://www.amazon.co...ywords=who am i. It's by this psychologist who developed a test called the Reiss test to evaluate motivation. I found it way more helpful than the (overrated) Myers-Briggs personality test, because it goes deeper. You should check it out.
Cheers to 16 months!
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These things have helped me cope with depression, anxiety, and feeling like I should be further along in recovery:
1) I think in terms of "it's only been x months." When I felt like shit at 3 months sober, I said, "It's only been 3 months." When I was depressed after 6 months, I thought, "It's only been 6 months." When I thought I should feel totally recovered at a year but didn't, I said, "It's only been a year." Now that my job searching confidence is shaky, I'm saying to myself, "It's only been 16 months."
2) I practice non-judgement. This could also be called mindfulness or living in the moment, but I call it non-judgement because it's less abstract: it's basically looking at something and having no opinion of it. I believe depression and anxiety are caused by persistent negative thoughts. Even if you're not aware of them, they're so embedded in your subconscious it's like a perpetual negative feedback loop, causing depression and/or anxiety. So to counter this, I'll look at a person, for example. Instead of going into my normal judgement mode, thinking (almost automatically) that person looks nice/is fat/is skinny/has cool clothes/etc., I try to just look at them and not have an opinion. Same with when I get out of my car at work. Instead of thinking, "this job sucks," I look at the building and just notice it, try to have no opinion of it. This takes practice, but it really helps me break the pattern, to get out of my negative way of thinking about myself and the world. If you're anxious or depressed, trying to think positive thoughts or 'look on the bright side' is a joke. Not only does it feel incredibly phony, but you feel like a fraud on a subconscious level because you know that's not how you really feel. But practicing 'having no opinion' doesn't feel phony, so it's a lot easier, and for me, it breaks the negative patterns and opens up the space where positive thoughts can arise on their own.
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Tyrosine can trigger headaches/migraines.
I used to get a lot of headaches, and when I removed bananas from my diet I got less headaches. Bananas contain tyrosine and can trigger headaches in some people. I used to eat a banana every day, now it's only occasionally.
A multivitamin, good diet and exercise is all you need. No supplement is ever going to come close to an amphetamine, so save your money and accept that time is what will fix your brain.
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Hey Cassie and Sebastian, I can identify.
Except Cassie, interesting that you were able to make major decisions easily on adderall. I couldn't! At my previous job, I hated it for two years and woke up every morning with a pit in my stomach but felt super stuck. Finally I quit.
But yeah, the boredeom. The drudgery. People say "it's normal to feel ambivalent about 20-30% of your job" but I feel ambivalent about 80% of it. On adderall at least I could muster false excitement about weird little projects here and there. Now I feel like a drone going to work every day, just doing work because that's what's expected.
However, the light at the end of the tunnel is that during my last job search I feel like I identified my dream job, the job I'm meant to have and be really happy at. My goal is to land that job in the next two years. That helps me push through this current one.
Anyway, people say it's a bad idea to quit a job without having another one lined up but for me it felt necessary to do that in order to figure myself out. I started job searching right away and the "gap" wasn't an issue. Do you have enough savings to take the gamble?
I made impulsive decisions on adderall, some good, some bad.
I think I have enough savings where I could go around 3 months without working. I'd definitely start looking right away though. I think I just need to take the plunge and quit, because this job is not for me and my soul is slowly dying. I just wish I had a better understanding of my true interests and desires this long after quitting (16 months). I feel confused and directionless at times, and worry that there's nothing out there for me, that I don't really fit in anywhere. Thanks for the replies, and don't worry, time starts going faster after a while.
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I desperately want to, but I can't seem to bring myself to. I'm afraid I won't have the confidence to perform in a new job, so I stay miserable in my current one.
I'm really angry with myself. Before Adderall (and on), if I wanted to quit my job I just quit. I didn't have this inane fucking daily dialogue with myself about it. I've turned into this huge pussy who can't make a decision. I used to have balls to make changes in my life. Now I feel stuck all the time.
I also got into a lot of debt on Adderall which took me a few years to get out of, so there is a stupid lingering money fear too.
I know the logical thing to do is to look for another job while I still have one, but I've never been able to do that. I need the fear of not having a job to make me get another one. Every job I've ever had feels like drudgery or painful boredom after a year or so, thus why I need fear motivation to light a fire under my ass. I don't have a passion and no career has ever felt right to me. It's painful, and the reason I got addicted to speed. I'm probably more well suited to owning my own business, but I'm too lazy and unmotivated for that right now.
AAAAGGGHHHH. Bleech. Thanks for reading. Any thoughts on this?
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I'm out of town right now but will look up the info when I get back
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Cassie, you're our resident researcher... could you possibly look in to whether there are any articles that can be read by the layperson about how this drug actually works? I am hearing conflicting reports - some say it enhances dopamine activity and some don't. I would like to know. I talked to my doctor about it and she wasn't v helpful.... she said it was, "adderall lite", whatever that means.
The Stuff You Should Know podcast has an episode that talks about it and has lots of references to other sources. It's really good:
http://www.stuffyous...ng-out-sleep/5/
Also, there was a 2009 study from Brown University:
Title: Study finds modafinil increases dopamine in brain, suggesting potential for abuse
Abstract: In a study of 10 healthy males, researchers measured the effects of modafinil at therapeutic doses on extracellular dopamine and dopamine transporters in the brain.
Modafinil blocked dopamine transporters and increased dopamine availability in the brain, including the nucleus accumbens. Drugs that increase dopamine in the nucleus accumbens have the potential for abuse.
With the increasing use of modafinil, there is a need for increased awareness on the risk of abuse and dependence
Your friend is in denial: it's a stimulant and it's addictive. The bottom line is that you can't cheat sleep without unwanted consequences.
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I'm not saying that it's right or allowed, just that teachers are aware that a take home exam, or any online work, is bound to foster cheating in a way that in class work doesn't.
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Your professor knows that people are going to work together on a 'take home exam.' Trust me, I work at a college. If he wanted to minimize cheating he would give in person tests. Take home exams are a joke.
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I'm sorry for your situation. When my husband of four months told me he wanted to move back to Canada because he didn't know who I was anymore, that got me serious about quitting, because I knew that he meant it. I knew I would hate myself forever if I threw away my marriage. I ended up relapsing after a couple months, but he knew about it (i didn't hide it) and I used the time to develop a more well thought out plan to quit for the second time. The first time I quit, it was in haste and I just wasn't mentally prepared enough. So, I agree with the others. Have a bottom line - it's either me or the drug. If she chooses the drug, then that's her choice. You can't make her see the light if she's blinded by the drug. You can only set your own boundaries and stick to them. You can't be wishy washy with addicts, they will take advantage of that.
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Congratulations on 41 days. I bet you think you should be feeling terrific, better, "fixed" by now, huh? Well the longer I'm on this ride the more I am agreeing with other long-timers here that it takes a loooooong time to feel totally normal. It's a very frustrating process. I'm having days like you more often than I would like and I'm over 120 days in.
Hang in there though. Go to a therapist, talk through your issues, but mainly; just accept yourself and this is not a "broken you". It's a sign of getting better. Like InRecovery says, the pain is the arrow coming out, not going in.
Agree with MFA and just wanted to add that the worst part of my recovery was months 2-4. The first month wasn't that bad for me, because sleeping and not having perpetual anxiety was such a novel experience. It was a relief to let go, to not care. The second month is when reality and depression really set in, and being a tired, confused couch potato isn't so fun anymore, and you want to change that but your brain is at odds with all your intentions and you're like Sisyphus pushing a rock up a hill. It's horrible, but all you can do is just muddle through your obligations, however half-heartedly, until those neural connections come back. During early recovery, you will realize how true that Woody Allen quote is: 70% of life is just showing up.
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Cold turkey is the way to go for you. Just curious though, if you can't taper on your own or with others holding the bottle, how's a psychiatrist going to help you? It's not like a methadone clinic where you go there every morning and the nurse gives you your daily dose of methadone. There is no adderall clinic. There's only your own willpower. Hence, the blow off by the 5 healthcare professionals.
I'd recommend quitting adderall first. You can quit your other meds later. You should minimize the shock to your system. As far as depression, I was pretty depressed and anhedonic for the first year off adderall. On an off though - not every day was horrible. It comes in waves. Read about PAWS. Realistically, you should expect it to take at least a year to feel normal again, and just prepare yourself for a really crappy year. It won't last forever, you're not going to die, it's just what you have to go through to defeat the addiction and become a person who no longer needs or desires speed to function in the world. Yes, it's scary, especially in the beginning, but it's what you have to endure if you want to quit for good. Welcome to the site, good luck, and post often
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Steps that are a MUST for Adderall users
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