Cassie
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Posts posted by Cassie
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Yep, I remember my addiction telling me 'psst...maybe you really do need adderall to function' well into month 7. Just remember that it's your addiction talking, those thoughts will dissipate with time, and you lived x number of years without it, which is far more than you lived with it. I also found InRecovery's technique of writing a list of the negatives of adderall to be helpful during those times. You can't stop those thoughts from happening, but you can read the list when those thoughts strike..
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I used to think it was weird counting days off adderall, especially because up until I discovered this forum I thought that the side effects of coming off the drug were supposed to last only 2 weeks. But really, the strength that has come from knowing I could get through 14, 20, 50, 70, 80 days (not quite 90, but that's ok!), has been really cool. It makes going in to tomorrow seam easier.
What's really cool is when you stop counting the days and start counting the months. Am I right, long-timers? That was an exciting milestone for me.
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I pretty much did nothing at work for the first few months, but one tip is to procrastinate the work you have to do until it's due in like, an hour or less. That last minute-ness will make you get it done without thinking too hard about it or expending too much effort. I couldn't do anything at work unless it was do-or-die like that. Or if someone was watching me, that helped too. You need fear motivation in the beginning, because intrinsic motivation is nonexistent. Also, have a TV show or radio show or music on in the background to split your attention. I listened to these radio podcasts online called 'War of the Roses' and 'Second Date Update' from Johnjay and Rich radio show in Phoenix. They're really funny and not too engrossing that you can't do other things while listening. Hope this helps! I feel your pain. It sucks. I thought I was going to get fired for sure but I didn't!
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That seemed sufficient to me, and I didn't want to open a whole can of worms with admissions on what I was really doing with them and how I was making suppositories and whatnot. kidding. my two cents.
Haha Sky...suppositories...were you taking Asserall? He he.
I kind of agree with Sky though about protecting your medical privacy, so to speak, when it comes to insurance. Who knows what kind of information they use and/or sell to other companies. I calmly told my doc that I didn't need it anymore, that I didn't like the side effects and that I felt it was psychologically addictive. I didn't say I was abusing it or going through withdrawals or anything that would have made me look like a junkie. I don't think I would have had the guts for a 'confession' at that point in time, so that worked for me.
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I actually bought and read 'The Power of Now' when I was on Adderall. I got into this obsessive, overly philosophical, self help book reading phase. For like, a year I was convinced I needed to consume all these self help/spirituality books because there was something psychologically wrong with me that I needed to figure out. It couldn't have been the Adderall, DUH. But yeah, better to read sober! Have you read his other one, 'A New Earth' I think it's called? I liked that one better than 'The Power of Now.'
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Prescribing Adderall for fatigue is like prescribing Vicoden for headaches. It's a dangerous overreaction to the underlying problem, over time it will dull your opiate receptors, and you will become even more sensitive to pain, just like speed will wear out your dopamine receptors, fry your adrenal glands and make you feel drained all the time. But doctors don't prescribe Vicoden for headaches - that would be careless.
The thing I was addicted to most with Adderall was the energy, and it was the reason I kept relapsing when I tried to quit - I couldn't get used to that lack of instant, artificial energy. I could only imagine if I had this problem at 16, with my brain, and natural coping mechanisms, underdeveloped.
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I don't have organization issues (nor do I really have ADD) but I totally relate to your #2, trying to figure out what to do with your life. After I quit Adderall I became obsessed with this quest to find my 'purpose' or whatever and I did/do the same thing as you: research something to death, get obsessed and then move on.
When I was about 6 months sober, I got this idea that I should have been a doctor (even though I never had any interest in being one before) and I spent weeks researching medical schools, prerequisites, and reading through these student doctor message boards. Then about a month later I realized that this kind of untertaking would be ridiculous for someone in her 30s that is still paying of student loans from her last degree. I don't want to be in debt for the next 10 years. WTF was I thinking? And just like that, the obsession with that career path was gone.
I did this multiple other times too, with different careers. See, the main reason I took Adderall was because I didn't know what to do with my life, so the drug made me feel great about whatever I was doing. After I quit I was right back where I started, in that place of confusion. But, I think it's kind of like trying to find a boyfriend. The more you're actively looking for love, the more it eludes you. I met my husband when I was not at all looking for a relationship, and same with all my other long term boyfriends. I think maybe this self discovery stuff is the same way. If you're thinking about it so hard all the time and researching and making lists and spreadsheets and doing all this STUFF, you're not open to receiving. And you need to be receptive to the messages from your subconscious intelligence. Your conscious brain is but a tiny part of your operating system.
Lately I've been doing this practice at a yoga studio called Yoga Nidra (you can download podcasts on itunes). It's a guided metitation class that puts you into a state self hypnosis and relaxes your brain waves. I've been doing stuff like this to calm my naturally overactive mind and make it more receptive. I read this article in Psychology Today about how too much data disables your decision making. http://www.psycholog...decision-making. That's totally me, so in my recovery I'm trying to get more in touch with myself and not obsess over external sources. I'm trying to trust my inner wisdom, LIVE LIFE, and listen for the messages.
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So I started watching the movie Happy on netflix, it's a great reminder of what's important and why we may tend to be more depressed or unhappy, vs happy and content... if you have netflix home streaming thing on your computer, you should check it out... not as action packed as MacGuyver but left me feeling good, like a good smack up side the head to wake up to what matters.
I watched Happy yesterday. How adorable were the old lady Okinawans? They're like the Japanese Golden Girls. Wanna go see Flight now - it's playing at the discount theater by my house.
I highly recommend Nurse Jackie - not a movie but a great TV series about addiction.
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It seems like you're looking for high-up executive type jobs and from what I understand those kind of job searches take a while, so I don't think you should be so hard on yourself. It sounds really exhausting, all the shmoozing and networking you have to do. But don't you work in finance? Doesn't Wall Street have more than its share of alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals and sociopaths? I'm sure there are tons of people in your field who have messed up in some way and rebounded and gone on to great jobs. I mean, second chances are a distinctly American value, so long as your fuck up doesn't involve jail time!
I don't consider taking one pill to be some kind of full-blown relapse, just a momentary fuck up. You're not starting over from scratch. When I relapsed I went to the doctor, got a script, went to the pharmacy and got that shit filled for, oh, the next nine months. Now that's starting over! Think of this one (minor) slip as a learning experience. The fact that you feel guilty about it shows how strong your conscience is in knowing that quitting is the right decision. The fact that you posted about it shows honestly and integrity. When I relapsed I lacked guilt and integrity - you are much more evolved than I was. I think you're going to be fine! (Hugs)
Cassie
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Aw, thanks guys! And yes, books about recovery are great and I read a ton of 'em. I didn't mean to imply that these things aren't useful, only that we should view them more as helpful distractions than as a means to speeding recovery, so we aren't disappointing ourselves by setting unrealistic expectations. I think any non-harmful distraction is beneficial in recovery. I can think of about 10 TV series that I am grateful for distracting me.
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Yes, it's frustrating because it's natural for humans to want to control their environments, and in amphetamine recovery there are many elements that are simply beyond control. Reading books about recovery, taking supplements, praying - these things may give us the illusion of control but I think we all have to know and accept deep down that the only real cure is time, and lots of it. That sense of control and mastery over life comes back only after a significant amount of time has passed and invisible internal repairs have been made. I'm sure that lack of 'sign from the universe' is the source of many an adderallic's relapse. Maybe the sign is that there is no sign because this is a test of your own willpower and conscience, exempt from external sources. I posted this quote awhile back too: "We gain the maximum amount of control when we relinquish the fantasy of total control." - Gordon Livingston. Big fan of that author ('Too Soon Old, Too Late Smart'). Hang in there. Maybe our TBA Vegas convention can be your reward?
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I know a few of you are around the three month sober mark right now and that point in recovery totally sucks. I mentioned this in a post a long time ago but I thought I'd share it again: When I was three months in, I felt like absolute shit and one night I cried to my husband that I had been off Adderall for 90 days and still felt horrible. He started laughing and said, "Well, yeah! Three months isn't a long time to quit something." I said "Oh, yeah" really somberly and then we both started laughing. It was kind of a turning point for me, realizing that it was okay that I didn't feel better yet, and that no one expected me to.
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We've all experienced that long-lingering anhedonia. All I wanted to do for the first 9 months was watch tv/movies because that was the only activity I had any interest in. Try to focus on the positive changes you see, like being a nicer person, having more empathy for others, etc. Don't force yourself to participate in hobbies that you're not feeling right now. What's the point of that? The anhedonia will lift in time. By a year I had genuine interest in things again (other than watching Breaking bad and Weeds marathons, lol).
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Uh, yeah! Breaking Bad is only the best show on tv.
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I was on a low-ish dose too (20-30mgs/day), for 5 years, and it took me a year to feel normal again. I had close to the same timetable as quit-once. Three months till I had physical energy, 10 months till I had any motivation and interest in things, feel mostly normal now at 13 months, with a few bad days here and there. You can't force the time it takes for your brain to readjust, so try and relax about it.
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No interactions are listed for DMAE. L-tyrosine and phenylalanine are okay, but I wouldn't take 5-HTP unless it's the only thing you take and you take it sparingly:
5-HTP may cause gastrointestinal disturbances, mood disturbances, seizure, or abnormal blood counts. Some of these reported side effects might result from contaminants in 5-HTP products. 5-HTP has also been associated with increased blood cortisol levels and increased risk of suicide in individuals with psychiatric illnesses.
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Possibly Safe: When used orally and short-term (up to one year) in recommended doses for cerebellar disorders (16) or depression (17). When used orally and short-term (up to 90 days) in recommended doses for fibromyalgia (18); up to four months in recommended doses for headache (19); up to 12 weeks in recommended doses for obesity (20); and up to 12 weeks in recommended doses for psychiatric disorders (21). When 5-HTP 4.5mg/kg daily is used in children for up to four months for headache (22).
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Possibly Unsafe: When used orally in certain patient populations. 5-HTP may worsen symptoms of existing gastrointestinal disorders, based on numerous reports of gastrointestinal adverse effects, primarily with intravenous administration (23;​24;​25;​26). When used in patients with HIV/AIDS, particularly HIV-1 infection (27). When used in patients with seizure disorders or those using agents that lower the seizure threshold (28;​39;​94). When used in patients with a history of mental disorders (24;​29;​30), including schizophrenia (31). When used in patients using CNS depressants (24;​26;​32;​33;​34;​35;​36). When used concurrently with antihypertensives (37). When used in patients taking decarboxylase inhibitors (81;​82;​83;​110;​111;​112) and in patients also with bradycardia (45).
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Likely Unsafe: When used in patients with eosinophilia syndromes (40) or mitochondrial encephalomyopathy (38), or in infants with Down syndrome (39). When used in patients with suicidal ideation (41). When used in individuals using "party pills" (benzylpiperazine and trifluoromethylphenylpiperazine) (42). When used in patients taking antidepressant medications (TCAs, MAOIs, SSRIs, nefazodone, trazodone, venlafaxine, mirtazapine, bupropion) or any other medications that may affect serotonin (43). When used in pregnant or lactating women. When used in patients with a known allergy to 5-HTP-containing products.
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Possibly Safe: When used orally and short-term (up to one year) in recommended doses for cerebellar disorders (16) or depression (17). When used orally and short-term (up to 90 days) in recommended doses for fibromyalgia (18); up to four months in recommended doses for headache (19); up to 12 weeks in recommended doses for obesity (20); and up to 12 weeks in recommended doses for psychiatric disorders (21). When 5-HTP 4.5mg/kg daily is used in children for up to four months for headache (22).
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You know what else I noticed today? I was talking with someone and made a self-depricating joke. Then like so many other "oh right, yes, I remember that emotion/feeling/behavior" type things that happen during recovery, I realized that self-deprecation is an art form afforded only to non-adderall users. Why? because adderallics take themselves too. fucking. seriously. all. the. time....
Totally. In fact, on the days I have PAWS, I take myself very seriously and get super anxious about my job, my future career, money, and stress myself out about these things. That's actually how I can tell it's going to be a PAWS day, that serious Adderall-like mentality, because normally I'm a pretty mellow person.
When I have days like that I think of this quote by Bertrand Russell: "One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important."
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I have access to Natural Standard - it's the authority for supplement info, so if you have questions I can look stuff up for you. This is the description. It's weird, all the studies conducted on DMAE (there are 153 listed) are from the 50s, 60s, and 70s. I guess it went out of style or something.
DMAE otherwise known as 2-dimethylaminoethanol or deanol is an analog of the B vitamin choline. DMAE is a precursor of the neurotransmitter of acetylcholine it has strong effects on the central nervous system. DMAE is commonly used to increase the capacity of neurons in the brain and is also thought to have anti-aging properties. Often DMAE is used to treat children with Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) because it is known to decrease aggression, increase attention span, and memory abilities. It has been shown to be as effective as methylphenidate in increasing brain function.(1,2)
Anecdotal DMAE uses include reversal of the cross-linking of proteins, increasing lifespan, decreasing the incidence and severity of hangovers, alleviating anxiety, increases motivation in depressed people and improving the behavior and mental function of children with Down's Syndrome.
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LewisJA, Lewis BS. Deanol in minimal brain dysfunction.Dis Nerv Syst. 1977 Dec;38(12 Pt 2):21-4.
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Lewis JA, Young R. Deanol and methylphenidate in minimal brain dysfunction. Clin Pharmacol Ther. 1975 May;17(5):534-40.
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LewisJA, Lewis BS. Deanol in minimal brain dysfunction.Dis Nerv Syst. 1977 Dec;38(12 Pt 2):21-4.
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I have two embarrassing 'public speaking on Adderall' stories for your amusement!
First one: At the college where I work, we were doing a large new student orientation for the first time. There were about 150 students in attendance. The MC for the thing was going to motion for each staff member to introduce themselves, then later on we were going to go into a deeper presentation about our department, what services we offer, where to find us on campus, etc. I was so high on Adderall, that when it came to my turn to introduce myself, I thought it was time for the longer presentation, so I went on and on for like 10 minutes about library and tutoring services when I was supposed to just say my name and title. Everyone was like, WTF?
Second one: I teach research methods to various classes in the form of 30-60 minute lectures. I do like, 50 of these things a year. So normally, I hook my laptop up, turn on the projector and do my lecture using the big pull-down screen, just like every lecture you've ever been to. Well, this one time, I was so strung out on Adderall that at the end of my 45 minute lecture I looked up at the big screen and I realized I had forgotten to TURN ON the projector! I did this entire presentation looking at my laptop and talking based on what was on that, and the corresponding projector screen was blank. What's worse is that NO ONE told me that the projector wasn't on, probably because I looked like a crackhead and was talking a mile a minute without interruption. Needless to say, I am a lot more engaged with the students now.
Anyway Ashley, most people hate public speaking and get nervous and anxious. The only reason I'm fine with public speaking now is because I've had to do it a million times for my job - I was terrified in the beginning. But yeah, Adderall and public speaking don't mix as you can see!
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The best thing you can do in the beginning is distract yourself as much as possible. For me that meant watching A LOT of TV, reading, going on weekend trips, hiking and doing yoga. It's really just a waiting game, you just have to wait for the months to go by and wait for your body and brain to adjust. After 4 months or so I started to have a little more energy and was thinking more clearly.
Yes, the desire goes away with time.
I'm not a big drinker, so I can't answer those questions...
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'Amphetamines have long been shown to slow weight gain, but some studies have suggested that these effects fade over several years of exposure.'
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2670101/
It's not some underlying issue, it's your long term adderall use + poor diet followed by quitting. Everyone gains weight after quitting as well, even if their diet stays the same. That is totally normal.
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Don't worry Debra, you'll quit when you're ready. At least you had the balls to tell us you relapsed, unlike me on quittingadderall.com circa March 2011. I was a big baby and scaredy cat! Relapsing is really, really common when quitting amphetamines. I mean, the physical and psychological addiction is huge. When you decide to quit again next time, sky's right, you have to be prepared for life to suck for a long time, your job to suck, everything to suck! Month one is just the beginning of the suck. It took me a year to feel normal again. But now I feel normal! And I would have never made it to normalcy if I had kept relapsing after a month or two months here and there like I had been doing for years. You need faith to stick with it when it feels hopeless.
P.S. Vyvanse is just as addictive and soul sucking as Adderall.
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Millions of amphetamine tablets were dispensed to soldiers on both sides of WWII. American, British, German, Japanese troops - they were all given speed to stay awake and fight more aggressively.
I think Jim Jones was on some sort of speed + other prescription drug cocktail toward the end too.
And of course Jack kerouc is famous for writing On the Road on an amphetamine binge (aka the most overrated book of all time).
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Ima wear my D.A.R.E T-shirt!! LOL
Hahaha, D.A.R.E! When I was in elementary school we called it Drugs Are Really Expensive!
Relationship (or lack thereof)
in General Discussion
Posted
Ashley, you are super cool and one hot chick, so I command you to get out there! The best way to get over a guy is to start dating another one, and the advice about doing it without expectation is right on, because we always meet special people when we least expect it. I had a one night stand with a guy I met at a country bar in Canada, and now he's my husband! True story.