Cassie
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Posts posted by Cassie
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Tinybuddha,
One of the reasons I got hooked on adderall was because, like you, I was always tired in the mornings and wide awake at night. Classic night owl. Which made working a 9-5 difficult. Enter adderall, which gave me endless daytime energy but of course destroyed my soul. The daytime sluggishness was the hardest thing for me about quitting. Going to work every morning was tortuous for the first few months. After about 3 months my body adjusted and I got used to the schedule again. Light exercise like walking and yoga will help, and a healthy diet. Not much else you can do other than relax as much as possible because your energy and motivation will be shot. Good luck! You will feel good again, it will just take some time. It will be worth it in the end.
I am 7 months clean and here to tell you it gets better.
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Hi Ashley,
Your feelings are totally normal, especially if it was a tense breakup. Off adderall I definitely feel all of my emotions more intensely - the good and bad. On adderall I stayed way too long in a couple of relationships as well, but you know what? That's normal for your 20s! You stay with a guy for convenience, because the sex is good, or some other shallow reason, rather than face the truth and break up with him. I've done it, my friends have done it, and my younger sister is doing it right now! I know it sucks where you're at right now, but when you're in your 30s you will look back and laugh at some of the relationships you had in your 20s.
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I just read a great book called Free Will by Sam Harris. It's about how free will, as we think of it, is an illusion from a neuroscience perspective because our thoughts and actions derive from deeper impulses of which we are consciously unaware. I've been a fan of Harris' blog for quite a while and think he's an amazing writer. Check it out. It's a very short read and you will find the concepts strangely comforting with regards to addiction recovery.
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Hi Ashley,
I felt the most depressed in months 2-4 as well, so you are not alone on that. It really is just your brain chemicals readjusting. The depression came in waves for me too and still does at times. Also, 90 days is a really short time to be sober from any drug. Sometimes the best thing you can do is let go of the fantasy that you can control your internal repair processes and let nature do its thing.
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I'm in Phoenix. Email me at cassie.heller@yahoo.com. Are you in the Phoenix area?
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Hi FW,
I just wanted to say that I felt the same way at two months, especially with the awkwardness and neediness around people, when I had been naturally confident and carefree before. I didn't start feeling improvements in my cognition until months 3-4, and in months 5-6 my mind really started coming back in full force. The first few months are really crappy, but you will get back to your natural self if you stick with it.
Cassie
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fight. this,
I just wanted to give you some encouragement. I am 6.5 months off Adderall and I now feel smarter and more focused than I did on Adderall. It took a long time to get to this point, and I still have some bad days month to month, but I feel almost recovered now from my 5 year addiction. For me, it helped to think of quitting solely as a biochemical problem, rather than an issue of willpower or 'mind over matter.' As in, your brain chemistry has been altered and it will physically take a long time to even out, while pushing yourself mentally or berating yourself only makes it harder and more frustrating. I focused on what I could control physically - diet, exercise, yoga, and massage. I could not control my focus, my motivation or my brain power, no matter how hard I tried. Trying to do mentally taxing things or 'get motivated' to do things with the same mentality I had on Adderall was a recipe for failure. If I had to do a project for work, I would wait until an hour before it was due and crap it out. The close deadline and time constraint would force me to get it done with a bare minimum of effort. There is a quote by the author/psychiatrist Gordon Livingston that goes something like, "We gain the most control when we relinquish the fantasy of total control." I think that is appropriate for quitting Adderall.
If you were smart and focused before Adderall (and it sounds like you were), you will be again. It will take many frustrating months, but you will feel good again - and by good I mean smart, focused, confident and competent! Adderall doesn't do any permanent damage, and the brain is plastic and will return to normal. In fact, I feel like I'm better than I was before Adderall, because I now have a deeper understanding of addiction, and I now have a better diet than I did before which is making a huge difference in my well being. Good luck and keep posting on how you are doing!
Cassie
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You don't need a bunch of expensive supplements. The best thing you can do is eat a healthy diet, which is a whole foods plant based diet with minimal to no animal products. That's how I eat today and I feel great. The first few months after quitting I did eat a lot of hard boiled eggs as I was craving a lot of protein, but now I eat maybe one egg a week, if that, and virtually no meat or dairy (i don't obsess about it). The cool thing is that it's cheaper to eat this way. I really upped my intake of fruit, veggies and beans after reading the amazing book "the China study" . Highly recommended reading.
The only supplement I took after quitting was l-tyrosine as it helps support dopamine production. It's very inexpensive. I took it for the first two months after quitting and I think it cost $8 for the bottle. The other thing you will need to do is exercise and you can accomplish that by walking or jogging, or whatever activities you enjoy doing.
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Whittering,
I read that it's common for meth addicts to relapse after six months. Since adderall is essentially the same drug I believe the same theory applies. In a way adderall is more dangerous than meth because of its cultural acceptance. I think it's easier to relapse when you remove the social stigma from the substance. Anyway, I believe the reason aa/na give out chips at 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, one year, is because those periods are when the cravings hit the hardest. I myself have had a really difficult week of recovery, feeling depressed, tired, cognitively impaired. Intense cravings for adderall to make it all feel better. You just have to weather it. It might take us another 6 months to feel totally normal again - so be it. Amphetamine is a powerful, addictive drug and we don't want to return to addiction.
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Also, just a tip for looking up supplement info or any other medical info on the Internet: use Medline Plus http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/
WebMD has ties to the pharmaceutical companies and is therefore a less trustworthy source.
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Not sure if you're looking at the 5-HTP for weight loss or depression, but for weight loss you can try glucomannan. It's a fiber that makes you feel full. I've heard good things about it - I know Nature's Way makes it in capsules. Maybe GNC makes it too, I'm not sure.
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5-HTP is a precursor to seratonin. The 'B' rating is the effectiveness, not the safety rating. This is what Natural Standard says about it regarding safety. If you take it I would make it your only supplement as it has the potential to interact with other meds and things.
General: 5-HTP when taken orally is generally well tolerated (71). Mild gastrointestinal side effects have been reported in many trials (17;​18;​19;​20;​23;​24;​25;​26;​30;​32;​33;​34;​35;​36;​38;​51;​55;​72;​73;​74;​75;​76;​77;​78;​79). Tolerability has been noted at doses as high as 1,600mg daily (46) and 16mg/kg daily over 12 months (16). Although 5-HTP appears to be generally well tolerated, due to potential serious adverse effects, such as EMS and status epilepticus, a physician should supervise use of 5-HTP.
Possibly Safe: When used orally and short-term (up to one year) in recommended doses for cerebellar disorders (16) or depression (17). When used orally and short-term (up to 90 days) in recommended doses for fibromyalgia (18); up to four months in recommended doses for headache (19); up to 12 weeks in recommended doses for obesity (20); and up to 12 weeks in recommended doses for psychiatric disorders (21). When 5-HTP 4.5mg/kg daily is used in children for up to four months for headache (22).
Possibly Unsafe: When used orally in certain patient populations. 5-HTP may worsen symptoms of existing gastrointestinal disorders, based on numerous reports of gastrointestinal adverse effects, primarily with intravenous administration (23;​24;​25;​26). When used in patients with HIV/AIDS, particularly HIV-1 infection (27). When used in patients with seizure disorders or those using agents that lower the seizure threshold (28;​39;​94). When used in patients with a history of mental disorders (24;​29;​30), including schizophrenia (31). When used in patients using CNS depressants (24;​26;​32;​33;​34;​35;​36). When used concurrently with antihypertensives (37). When used in patients taking decarboxylase inhibitors (81;​82;​83;​110;​111;​112) and in patients also with bradycardia (45).
Likely Unsafe: When used in patients with eosinophilia syndromes (40) or mitochondrial encephalomyopathy (38), or in infants with Down syndrome (39). When used in patients with suicidal ideation (41). When used in individuals using "party pills" (benzylpiperazine and trifluoromethylphenylpiperazine) (42). When used in patients taking antidepressant medications (TCAs, MAOIs, SSRIs, nefazodone, trazodone, venlafaxine, mirtazapine, bupropion) or any other medications that may affect serotonin (43).
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Bummer! I hate it when things like that happen. You can easily find it in the library - it's really old, lol.
I also recommend Gordon Livingston's books, "Too Soon Old, Too Late Smart" and "And Never Stop Dancing". He's a psychiatrist who writes these essays about human nature that are just so spot-on. I re-read his books all the time. He's also a frequent contributor to Psychology Today.
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I think if you've successfully weened down to 10mg/day, your quitting process will be easier than most. Although, I was not on huge doses - 20-40mg of Vyvanse, which is probably equivalent to 10-20mg of Adderall (although Vyvanse felt more potent to me than Adderall). But I was not consistent with my dose. I used to play around with it a lot, so you will probably have an easier time than I did. I was so psychologically addicted, I was convinced I couldn't do anything without it.
I did take some anti-depressants in my early twenties, but my depression was a lack of interest in my career and disappointment with life decisions, not some sort of 'chemical imbalance.' Viewing depression as a physical disease requiring medication ignores the social context of our lives. We are as much a product of our environments, habits and attitudes as we are our genes. I prefer now to get down to the root of my problems and use exercise/yoga/meditation to work on depression.
It sounds like you definitely have your head in the game and are serious about quitting Adderall. It's great that you have a plan for getting a less stressful job that has you moving around during the day. That will help immensely. Good luck and keep posting!
Cassie
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The website is http://smartrecovery.org/. You can find local meetings there. I've never been to AA/NA before, but my friend who went with me to the SMART Recovery meeting has been to AA/NA a bunch of times (court appointed)and he said that this was so much better than AA/NA.
Just to give you an example of one of the conversations in the meeting, there was a guy there who was concerned about having to go to a work event where there would be alcohol. He was worried that his co-workers would try to pressure him into drinking. The meeting moderator told him to go to the event, head straight to the bar, and order a Coke or Sprite in a small glass with a slice of lemon (so it would look like an alcoholic drink), and have a full drink like that in his hand the entire time. This way if anyone asked to buy him a drink or whatnot, he could hold up his drink and say that he's already got one. No pressure. Now, my friend said that if this was AA they would tell him to avoid going to bars or drinking events, but here the guy got some practical advice on how to navigate the situation rather than avoid it. That's what I thought was cool about this group, the pragmatism. Anyway, check it out if you'd like!
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Hi Whittering,
Hang in there. You said you took Wellbutrin for 15 years too, so your brain may have been as dependent on that as is was on the Adderall. Maybe not as extreme, but dependent nonetheless. When you start screwing with your neurotransmitters your brain adapts and doesn't regulate them the same as it would naturally. None of these drugs have been studied long term either. Antidepressant (and amphetamine) trials last two months. Scientists aren't even sure how antidepressants work, let alone the long term effects.
So, maybe your brain is experiencing more changes than mine. Also, when I say I have more energy now, I don't mean that I'm bouncing off the walls like when I was high on Adderall. It's a more consistent, calmer energy throughout the day versus the ups and downs and nervous energy of Adderall. It feels more...human. And I still have good days and bad days where I feel depressed and lethargic, but they are becoming less and less. I think part of the reason is that I'm very militant about my diet and exercise. I don't eat fast food, I juice almost every day, etc. And I'm consistent with exercising every day, even if that just means walking around the block a couple times. It sounds like you're experiencing the exercise Catch-22: you're too tired to exercise but if you exercise you'd feel less tired. It's one of those things you just have to force yourself to start doing, then it becomes easier. Exercise and yoga have been key for me. Part of the reason I'm so militant with my habits is because I'm serious about never going back to Adderall. I relapsed before and I am determined not to again.
Maybe you can try a support group in your area. I recently went to a meeting of SMART Recovery - it's a secular recovery group. I really liked it. There were a lot of cool people and it wasn't focused on talking about drug use or God like the AA/NA crowd. It's a cognitive behavioral therapy model that aims to help you change your attitudes and thinking patterns so you can move on from your addictions and hangups. I was really impressed. You can check out their website to find a meeting near you. Anyway, just something else you might try. There are so many ways to alleviate depression without pills, so keep trying!
Cassie
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Funny, I've noticed that many of us took Adderall for 5-6 years when we decided to quit. That seems to be the breaking point for a lot of people. I took Adderall daily for 5 years and tomorrow will mark 6 months off of it. It took several tries before I was able to quit for good. Quitting is hell and many of your fears are accurate. You will gain weight, feel lethargic and be racked with depression and anxiety for quite a while. I didn't have any physical energy for the first three months. My body felt extremely heavy all the time. I'm just starting to feel interest in life again after 6 months. I ate healthy and worked out regularly and it took that long. If you really want to quit you will need to make it your top priority, maybe take some time off work in the beginning so it's not too much of a blow. But the fatigue and mental deficiencies are just temporary. I have more energy now than when I was addicted, and I've lost the post-Adderall weight. The brain gradually repairs itself - you just have to be extremely patient and know that it might take you 6 months to a year to feel rebuilt. The longer you wait to quit the longer your recovery time is going to be, so better to get it over with now!
P.S. I also told myself I wouldn't still be on Adderall when I turned 30...and I was 31 when I stopped. That turned out to be a weak motivator. What really made me quit was knowing that I had to get off the pills in order to move on with my life and grow as a person.
Cassie
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Congratulations on a year! That is great news. I'm glad you feel like you can put all this behind you now. I feel you on your comment about the Internet not interesting you like it once did. I feel that way too. On Adderall I was obsessed with the Internet. I always had to know the latest news pertaining to a million different fields and was always researching something pointless. I wasted so much time on the Internet and now I'm like, 'Meh.'
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Suppressing thoughts doesn't work for most people. If anything, trying to suppress or change your thoughts causes you to think about the thing you're trying not to think about even more. After being frustrated thinking about Adderall constantly for months, I instead decided to think about Adderall even more obsessively whenever those thoughts arose until my brain finally got bored thinking about it. I literally made my brain get sick of the subject. I'm about six months clean now and haven't thought about Adderall in two weeks. You should read the book 'The Conquest of Happiness' by Bertrand Russell. He had some cool insights about this subject.
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I am still feeling up and down, although the depressive episodes get further between the longer I am sober. Last week I felt really physically weak and depressed and this week was the complete opposite. Today I feel great! Full of energy and positivity. It's hard when you get an attack of physical withdrawal many months down the road because you think, "What the f-? I feel like it's my first day off Adderall all over again!" To cope, it helps to stop viewing recovery as a linear process where you are going to feel a little better every day. Because it's not like that. It's more like 'two steps forward, one step back.' Once I accepted that recovery doesn't follow an intuitive linear path it got easier to see the patterns and adapt to them, rather than put up a fight.
As far as you having underlying bi-polar issues or anything like that, I highly doubt that's the case if you didn't have those issues before Adderall. In your original post, it sounded like your life was pretty normal before Adderall. I can't tell you how many times over the past few months I've said to myself, 'Maybe I do need Adderall. I think I really do have ADD. I should just call my doctor.' Then I remind myself that I never had ADD as a kid and that it's a bullshit diagnosis to begin with. So, occasionally I'm still getting into fights with my own thoughts. This is addiction. I would advise you to wait at least six months before deciding to go on another med. You will feel so much stronger and prouder of yourself if you can get through this with your mind unadulterated by yet another pill.
As far as your feelings of lonliness, I can totally relate. Only other Adderallics understand the nuances of this particular addiction. I might try out some NA meetings or something related, as I'm finally at the point where I feel comfortable talking about this face to face with real people.
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Hi Kathleen,
Your colorful post made me laugh! Mood swings/bipolar feelings are a totally normal part of quitting. I was really up and down the first few months - well, more down than up, but moody nonetheless. I'm still having physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms after 5 months and I took lower doses of Adderall than you did. The best thing you can do is be patient, wait it out. I don't think antidepressants (or whatever you're looking for) would necessarily hurt, but realize that you can't rush the pace at which the brain repairs itself. Mood swings are part of that process and supressing our natural healing processes isn't always the best idea. Culturally, we've been conditioned to believe that symptoms are bad and we should never have to tolerate discomfort. The results? Record pharmaceutical industry profits. The medicalization of human emotions. Huge increases in prescription drug addiction. Personally, I've severed the assumption that taking a pharmaceutical drug will make me feel better. That's the mindset I had on Adderall.
I've read stories of addiction counselors advising patients to wait six months to a year for the brain to balance out before considering an anti-depressant. Of course if you go to a medical doctor they will be happy to hand you a prescription, as it is in their best interests to do so (more $ and more time efficient). Whatever you decide to do, remember that your mood swings are a normal part of recovery!
Cassie
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Hi Whittering,
I wanted to respond because we are only 8 days apart in our clean time and we took Adderall the same number of years, so I know what you're going through. I am so lazy and unmotivated at my job, it's crazy that I haven't gotten fired. I think about Adderall daily and am constantly bored. But I trust that it's going to get easier to do boring things because my brain is now getting proper practice at it. If you're like me you have good days and bad days. That's good. If your brain wasn't healing you would only have bad days. I'm expecting it to take a year until I'm back to the person I was before Adderall, and I think you should grant yourself the same patience.
A couple things that have helped me:
1) Regular yoga practice. I'm not one of those people who loves doing yoga, but the postive effects on my energy and focus are undeniable, so I force myself to do it at least every other day.
2) Reading about post acute withdrawal syndrome, sometimes called prolonged withdrawal effect. These are psychological symptoms that last for months or years after quitting drugs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome
The other day I printed out a great article about relapse prevention. It talks in detail about "a number of conditioned psychological responses that persist long after abstinence." One of these is the following:
Magical Thinking: The belief that chemical use is the cure for a problem or will compensate for some personal weakness or lack of skill.
Remember this when you think you can't write your resume without Adderall.
The article: Relapse prevention before relapse: An intensified approach. Kelley, John M. Behavioral Health Management, May/Jun94, Vol. 14 Issue 3, p59, 2p.
Cassie
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I agree with you, Jonny5. When I think of an addict, I think of someone who goes from one addiction to another, whether it's drugs, alcohol, food, exercise, work, etc. My friend John is a perfect example of this. He was addicted to meth for two years, quit that, then started binge drinking. Now he's a high functioning alcoholic. And he's a heavy smoker, and a compulsive eater, and a workaholic. I think addicts, in the true sense of the word, just replace one addiction for another throughout their lives.
Using this definition I'm definitely not an addict. I don't smoke, rarely drink, and just don't have the tendency to go to extremes with anything. I got addicted to Adderall because I took it regularly every day for years for depression and ADD symptoms. A friend of mine got addicted to painkillers in the same way. She broke her back in a horrible accident and took prescribed painkillers for years because of genuine chronic pain. When she tried to quit she couldn't because she was so addicted to them. Now that she's off them (she got an implant device for pain) I wouldn't call her an addict. She's was never addicted to anything else before. She was addicted to painkillers, and now she's not. I used to be addicted to Adderall, but that connection is getting weaker every day.
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I've been to www.kci.org a few times to read the message boards. It's an anti-meth site. Some of them are interesting, honest, and written by intelligent people. It certainly gives me hope to read posts by people who were on meth for 20+ years written coherently! But yeah, any other Adderall forum out there seems to consist solely of Adderall advocates who coo over the virtues of amphetamine drugs. Not only that, but most of these freaks are on a multitude of drugs, usually some sort of amphetamine/anti-depressant/anti-anxiety cocktail. You know, for all their 'diseases.' They're not interested in solving their problems. They've been fully medicalized.
We are the best and probably only anti-Adderall cult around. What kind of Kool-Aid do you guys like?
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I dont know anymore.....
in Tell your story
Posted
I think a good rule of thumb (based on my experience and others' comments) is one month for every year on Adderall. I took it for 5-6 years and after six months I felt mostly like myself again. I'm sure I'll feel even better after another six months. If you were on it for 2.5 years you might start to feel normal after 2-3 months. If you feel normal after a week then you are the exception, not the rule.