Cassie
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Posts posted by Cassie
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Hey Holden,
If this is your first time trying to quit don't beat yourself up too much if you relapse. It sounds like you are on the verge. The first time I tried to quit I went two months and relapsed. The second time was much easier because I learned from the first time. I prepared myself better - had more of a plan and was just more mentally prepared. I was ready to say fuck my obligations - this is more important. I remember freaking out that I was going to get fired at work for being such a slacker. But you know what? I don't think anyone even noticed. Adderall sure made me feel like I was being productive, but really I was just doing stupid projects and wasting time with busywork.
I think if you're really ready to quit you won't feel that much anxiety in the first month. It will feel more like relief - then the anxiety comes later, like in the second, third, fourth month. That's how it was with me anyway. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when you're really ready to quit, quitting will come first, and you'll figure out how to fulfill your other obligations as you go along. You also need a lot of patience and the ability to be kind to yourself. Adderall made me a huge bitch all around, but I was especially mean to myself while on Adderall and after quitting. Once I stopped being so mean to myself the quitting process got a lot easier. It will take many months to regain your confidence and motivation, but it will happen. I am five months of Adderall today and I feel 100 times better than I felt at one month.
Cassie
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Hi Kathleen,
Your story and comments about Adderall taking away your ability to appreciate the small things in life reminded me of a Bertrand Russell quote, so I thought I would post it. Bertrand Russell had some really insightful things to say on the subjects of drugs, boredom and addiction. From The Conquest of Happiness, Chapter 4 'Boredom and Excitement':
"A life too full of excitement is an exhausting life, in which continually stronger stimuli are needed to give the thrill that has come to be thought an essential part of pleasure. A person accustomed to too much excitement is like a person with a morbid craving for pepper, who comes last to be unable even to taste a quantity of pepper which would cause anyone else to choke. There is an element of boredom which is inseparable from the avoidance of too much excitement, and too much excitement not only undermines the health, but dulls the palate for every kind of pleasure, substituting titillations for profound organic satisfactions, cleverness for wisdom, and jagged surprises for beauty."
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If you really feel you need an antidepressant you could always take St. John's wort. It's natural and just as effective as an ssri. Plus it's been used for millenia, unlike drugs such as effexor, for which the long term effects are unknown. St. John's wort is the dominant antidepressant in some European countries. Just know that no antidepressant should used long term - you are altering your brain chemistry.
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I definitely don't do as much work as I did on Adderall. On Adderall I was always volunteering for extra projects and doing work related research, which now I don't. I only do the bare minimum. And yes, I find that I do many things faster now and with less effort. On Adderall I could spend an hour composing an email that off Adderall takes me five minutes because I'm not poring over it, wondering if what I've written makes sense.
Basically I'm really bored at work, do the bare minimum, and have a perpetual low level anxiety that I'm not doing enough. That anxiety keeps me from enjoying any free time, because I'm constantly thinking (in the back of my mind) that I'm going to get fired. It's a really frustrating cycle of boredom and anxiety. I think I'm just going to start sending my resume out, and if I can't find anything better I'll just stay where I'm at for a while.
Cassie
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I have also read "On Speed" by Nicolas Rasmussen and recommend that anyone taking Adderall read it to learn about the history of this drug. Amphetamines are a perfect example of how the drug discovery came first and the search for a disease came second, and how the 'disease' changed over the years depending on cultural shifts. I think everyone should be aware of how powerful pharmaceutical companies are, and have always been, in shaping medical research, government regulations, and the health information stream itself.
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Here's the wikipedia description of post acute withdrawal syndrome as well if you want to read more about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-acute-withdrawal_syndrome
I think from your other post you mentioned that you took Xanax or klonopin as well, so you may be in for a lot of this. I find that it's helpful to read about these things, so that when I start freaking out or getting cravings I think, "Oh, it's just 'PAWS.' It will get better over time." It sort of transfers the blame outside yourself to another source - depersonalizes the withdrawal symptoms so you don't get so down on yourself. What made me relapse the first time I tried to quit was underestimating how long it would take for my mind/body to recover, and subsequently beating myself up when I thought the process wasn't going fast enough. Shifting the blame to a 'third party', so to speak, can be an effective coping mechanism.
On the bright side, after four months off Adderall I have more energy than I ever had while I was on Adderall, due to the things I posted above and a healthy diet. I weigh the same as I did on Adderall too. I wake up earlier and go to bed later than I did when I was on speed - imagine that! Once you have energy again you will feel so much more confident and you can begin to work on other issues, like motivation, discipline, interests, etc. That's kind of where I'm at now. Just don't even think about those things until you have energy again, otherwise it will be too stressful because all you can think about is how tired you are all the time. It will get better!
I hope this helps you somewhat. You can get through this!
Cassie
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Hi everyone,
I need some advice on what to do about work. I've been off Adderall for 4.5 months now (yay!), but I'm really struggling with work. My job is sometimes busy, sometimes slow, and I usually have a lot of free time. I've worked there for several years now and was getting bored and restless while I was on Adderall. Now I've just completely lost all interest and motivation whatsoever. I think the slow pace was really helpful in the beginning quitting stages. I'm head of my department and don't really have a 'boss' looking over my shoulder, so I could slack off like crazy and delegate work to my employees that I would normally have done. And I could leave whenever I wanted. And the pay is decent which is important because I got myself in a ton of student loan debt while on Adderall. But I desperately want to change jobs because of the boredom, and the fact that I associate this job with Adderall.
My question is, do you think it's a good idea to change jobs this early in sobriety? Do you think a less cushy job would make me want to use Adderall again, or that a busier, more structured job would help because I wouldn't have as much time to think and dwell on my mental state during the day? I should mention that I would be changing jobs for the novelty - I have no real idea what I'm looking for or what my career interests are off Adderall. I don't think I'll ever like any job that requires me to work for someone else, to be honest. That's kind of why I started taking Adderall in the first place. Couldn't figure out what to do for a career, so might as well just enjoy the one I'm currently doing. Now I'm back where I started - no passion, no direction, no real goals, plus crushing debt! Has anyone else experienced this? Any advice? Thanks,
Cassie
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Hi Ashley,
What helped me deal in the beginning were activities that lowered my anxiety. I got a deep tissue massage every week for the first two months. The more massages you can afford to get the better. Find a massage school in your area and go to their student clinic - they usually only charge $20-25. I also did yoga classes several times per week, but if you can do a little yoga every day that's even better. Try to walk every day for 30 minutes, or some other light exercise. I found that intense exercise like running made me too tired in the beginning stages. It was a lot easier (mentally and physically) to take a brisk walk or do a leisurely hike. Listen to music, meditate, take baths - anything else that will calm you. I took lots of hot baths in the beginning. I also watched a lot of TV. All I did for the first two months was go to work, come home, watch TV, go to sleep, repeat. It sounds super lame but watching TV was really the only activity that sufficiently distracted me from the withdrawals. So, don't worry if all you feel like doing for a while is watching TV. Just go with it.
Also, I don't want to scare you, but for me the second month was much worse than the first in terms of crazy emotions and withdrawal symptoms. For me days 30-75 were the most brutal. I think it's because the first month kind of felt like a relief - relief from feeling tweaked out 24/7. There was a novelty to it that wore off in the second month when the reality of living without Adderall set in to take its place.
I came across this article that talks about post acute withdrawal symptoms (or 'PAWS'), basically psychological withdrawal issues that addicts suffer from, and that tend to peak around 3-6 months after quitting. I think it's quite accurate, and also helps you realize the extensive amount of time it takes to get back to normal after long term use of a powerful drug.
http://digital-dharma.net/post-acute-withdrawal-syndrome-why-we-dont-get-better-immediately/
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I had a really bizarre dream about Adderall last night. I just thought I would share:
I had been off Adderall for a few months but was still dealing with some bouts of anxiety and restlessness. I asked a friend of mine if he had any Ambien or anti-anxiety meds I could have, and in exchange I would give him 15 leftover Adderall pills I still had lying around my house. He agreed.
Instead of simply going over to his house and trading pills like normal people, we decided to do the exchange at an Olive Garden restaurant (I guess we were craving gross food for some reason). We sat down at a table and looked at the menu. At this point, rather than just nonchalantly handing my friend the baggie of pills across the table, I ordered a salad and, once the salad arrived, proceeded to sprinkle the Adderall over the top of it like little blue croutons. My friend did the same thing, only his salad looked like it was peppered with little white croutons that was the Ambien. We then slyly traded salads.
At this point, I got up to go to the bathroom, thinking my friend would stay at the table and guard our drug-salad creations. But as I was in the bathroom, he went outside to go smoke a cigarette, and while we were gone, the waiter came and took our plates. We returned to the table horrified that our drugs were gone, and we saw the waiter in the kitchen holding our salads and talking to a manager. We then bolted from the restaurant.
In the car, I was freaking out that the waiter was going to call the cops and we were going to get arrested for having these meds. My friend was laughing, telling me to calm down, trying to reassure me that they didn't have our credit card info and weren't coming after us. I kept telling myself how stupid I was for this ridiculous Olive Garden idea and being really worried about being arrested. It was a very panicky dream, but the plot was kind of hilarious if you think about it.
Cassie
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Just another thought: You say you only need it outside of work. So, what are you going to do - take it in the evenings after work and not be able to sleep? Be so tired the next morning that you need it for work? Or take it on Sundays and then need it on Mondays because you feel so tired compared to Sunday? I worry about starting a cycle like that. It's just so easy to start taking it more and more because your brain doesn't like feeling the periodic dopamine disruptions.
I'm at the 4 month mark and my energy is awesome right now, because I do yoga and guided meditation every day, and cardio a few times a week. I used to do 90-minute yoga sessions twice a week, but now I do a 90-minute session once a week at a studio and do a shortened 20-minute version every other day at home. I once read that it's better to do yoga 10 minutes every day as opposed to one hour a week, and I have to say that doing it daily has made my energy go through the roof. I also listen to a guided meditation podcast before I fall asleep, about 10-20 minutes.
I don't buy into the pro-pharma, quick fix, pill popping culture anymore. 100 years ago people didn't take antidepressants or other psycotropic drugs. And as my mom says about ADD kids, "we used to just call them brats."
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Whittering,
A few weeks ago when I was having similar feelings, my husband reminded me that three months isn't a long time to quit something. He actually kind of chuckled as he said it, like I was being childlishly impatient with my recovery expectations. And I realized I was. He was right - three months is nothing. Why don't you wait another three months and see if you feel differently? My prediction is that you'll feel a lot better at six months sober compared to three, as will I. And if you don't, well, Adderall will still be there if you change your mind. My point is, after long term daily use of any substance (let alone one as psychologically addictive as Adderall), you need a lot more than a few months to fully recover. If you don't want to take amphetamines for the rest of your life, you're going to have to let go sometime. Better sooner than later.
Cassie
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Those old ads are hysterical! Boy, did Ritalin go all out in promoting that stuff. I like the 'Many Faces of Ritalin' ad (somewhere on the page http://www.bonkersinstitute.org/medshow/kidstuff.html) that shows a child, a teenager, a mom, and a grandpa all happy on their Ritalin. Ritalin for the whole family!
It's also funny how you can see from the ads that ADD used to be called MBD, or Minimal Brain Disfunction. It's like you can actually trace the invention of the disease through the advertising campaigns.
Like one pharma representative said in a recent article (I think it was in the Washington Post article I posted), "You can't push a drug if people don't think they have a disease."
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Hi quit-once,
You can view the grading system here: http://www.naturalstandard.com/grading.asp
The database is called Natural Standard.
The "B" ones haven't necessarily had less clinical trials than the "A"s. They could have multiple smaller studies showing positive effects, but the small sample size or study design doesn't render it statistically significant. Basically "A" means 'strong scientific evidence' and "B" means 'good scientific evidence.'
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I have access to a lot of high quality medical databases through work, and one of them focuses on evidence-based research for natural herbs and supplements. I thought I would post a list of natural supplements that have been proven effective through clinical trials to treat some of the side effects of Adderall withdrawal, for any scienc-y types out there who want to take a natural approach to health.
Note that 'natural' doesn't mean 'safer', that there are no reported side effects, or that you should take it every day for a long period of time. In general, these supplements are safe when taken for short periods of time at a proper dose, providing you don't have an allergy or sensitivity to the substance, or it doesn't interfere with something else (for example, I don't take St. John's Wort because it can lower the efficacy of birth control pills). If you have questions about side effects of a supp, specific brands, interactions with other meds, etc. let me know and I can look it up for you in this professional database. You can also look for products that contain these supplements. Nature's Way makes a lot of them. Also note that most of these have been used for centuries, long before there were pharmaceuticals.
There may be supplements that work for you that aren't on this list - this list is simply supps that have undergone clincal trials and have been shown to be more effective than a placebo. The rating "A" means >2 statistically significant clinical trials have shown supp to be effective (this is the same criteria for a drug to be approved by the FDA). "B" means 1-2 statistically significant clinical trials have shown supp to be effective. I only put As and Bs on here. "C" would mean there's conflicting studies or unclear evidence, "D" that there's some negative evidence and "F" a lot of negative evidence. Here we go:
Cognitive performance
A - caffeine
B - ginseng
Weight loss/appetite suppressant
A - ephedra
B - 5-HTP
B - chitosan
B - conjugated linoleic acid (CLA)
B - DHEA
B - hydroxycitric acid
B - konjac glucomannan
B - Korean pine
B - mango seed fiber
B - salatrim
B - whey protein
Constipation
A - konjac glucomannan
A - phosphorus, phosphate
B - aloe
B - flaxseed
B - psylium
Anxiety
A - kava
B - massage
B - meditation
B - yoga
Depression
A - St. John's Wort
B - DHEA
B - phenylalanine
B - yoga
ADHD
B - zinc
Pain/headaches
A - acupuncture
A - marijuana
B - chiropractic
B - guided imagery
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Thanks quit-once! I enjoy reading your posts as well. Yes, my husband is a smart guy but we actually don't talk about this subject much. I guess I find it easier to express my emotions via written communication with complete strangers, lol. Seriously, it's easier to talk about this with people who know what it's like. I too have felt very alone in this process despite having a supportive significant other, simply because he can't truly relate to or understand all these little nuances of quitting Adderall. It's funny, sometimes I'll be posting on this site and my husband will come up and look over my shoulder, and I'll slam my laptop lid down as if I've just been caught looking at porn. He'll ask me what I'm doing and I'll either say, "Posting to my Adderall site" or "Nothing, go away!" I guess in some ways, this site is my porn.
I'm glad you are doing so well and that your hobbies/interests have returned. I hope I can find some new hobbies soon. I have been revisiting my old hobbies more and more - reading, cooking, hiking, sports - but I'd love to find some new interests and a new job so I don't feel like my life is stagnating. Boredom was a huge trigger for me abusing Adderall. I was just watching my first and probably last episode of Celebrity Rehab on Netflix (it's a pretty horrible show), but Dr. Drew said one interesting thing. He said that in an addict's mind, boredom is actually depression, so working on the depression (exercise, for example) alleviates boredom and vice versa. That's my nugget for today.
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Thanks, InRecovery. The ongoing physical cravings are something that has really suprised me about this process. I will feel fine for a week or so, then the next day I will have an intense physical craving for Adderall. My body is just aching for it, screaming out for a dopamine boost. Then after a couple days I feel fine again. It's weird how these cravings come and go. I think it's my body making hormonal adjustments. It doesn't seem related to diet or exercise. Anyway, thanks for replying. I can't wait until I've been sober for 17 months!
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I just wanted to update my original post - today is my fourth month anniversary of quitting Adderall for good! It has been really difficult and I still think about Adderall about 1000 times a day, but I feel improvements in my overall energy levels and motivation compared to two months ago. The hardest aspect of quitting for me is the general feeling of anhedonia. I'm just not really that interested in anything right now. I feel lost, like I don't know what my interests are at this point in my life. I hope it gets better over time. I went to a hot yoga class today and the instructor said something that resonated with my quitting Adderall. She said that when you do hot yoga, some days you feel good and some days you feel bad - you just have to trust the process. That inspires me to not get so down on the days I feel lousy and depressed and trust that the process of sobriety is working to make me stronger.
Cassie
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I felt the same way at the two month mark. I quit Adderall for two months last year, then started again because I didn't feel the fatigue or motivation improving at all. When I quit again nine months later I had to go through the same thing again. What I realized was that it takes a long time for your brain and body to get back to normal. I didn't feel like I had any energy or focus until the third/fourth month (around now). One day a few weeks ago, I was complaining to my husband that I still felt like crap after three months sober. He said, 'Well, three months isn't a long time to quit something.' I found that statement humbling. I realized that three months really isn't a long time in the grand scheme of a five year daily addiction! I felt so silly that I expected to feel perfect again after just a couple months.
You should try to take it easy on yourself and focus on eating healthy, doing aerobic exercise every day, and taking the right supplements (caffeine, l-tyrosine, fish oil, etc.) That's all you can do, really. The rest is going to be your brain readjusting, making tweaks to get its neurotransmitters back to homeostasis, and that can take many months, depending on your dosage and length of time on the drug. I think as a rough estimate, you can expect it to take a month for every year on the drug (just my opinion). If you were truly addicted to the drug, it might be wishful thinking to say you are going to get another prescription and only use it to study. I know that would have never worked for me because I would have rationalized taking it every day again and of course, we all know how the tolerance builds up. When I went back to Adderall after two months off, I was abusing it again within the first week. I think you should hang in there. You don't want to relapse like I did and have to go through the crappy first two months all over again. I wish I would have just hung in there the first time, because I started feeling better in months three and four. But, it all depends how ready you are to be Adderall-free. Good luck!
Cassie
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Hi Anna, and welcome! I lived in Sheephead's Bay for a brief time, or "Little Russia" (lol), so your post brought back memories of Brooklyn. I understand what you mean about being lonely and taking the pills. I did the same thing when I was in a long distance relationship. I would binge on Adderall when I was alone and bored and missing my boyfriend. Adderall numbed my feelings and made the time go by so fast.
Good luck on your journey to quit this junk. I am almost four months off Adderall and I still crave it a lot, especially when I'm bored and feeling tired. But it's getting better as time goes by. I was recently talking to a friend of mine who was addicted to meth for two years (heavy user) several years ago before I met him. He said it took him a year after quitting meth to feel happy again. He said he was worried that he would never feel happiness again, but eventually it returned. Since I was on Adderall (meth jr.) for more than twice as long (five years), I figure it will take around a year for me too. I'm at least going to give it a year. I really don't ever want to go through this hell of quitting again.
Cassie
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You said you will have no responsibilities with regards to work or school this summer - that sounds like the perfect time to quit Adderall. I wish I would have quit three years ago while I was in between jobs, instead of three months ago while I had (and still have) a full time job with a horrendously long daily commute. The problem was that three years ago I didn't even realize I was addicted to Adderall. I knew I was dependent on some level, that I needed it to function every day, but I didn't clearly see the problems Adderall was causing me until much later. I still kick myself for not seeing it sooner and quitting during the seven months I was unemployed. Sure, I was going to graduate school at the time, but it would have been so much easier to quit without the burden and boredom of a 9-5 job, because that's the environment that makes me crave Adderall the most.
It sounds like you already see the harm Adderall/Vyvanse is causing you. If you quit this summer while you have this ideal opportunity of being work and school-free, you can save yourself a lot of pain several years down the road, when you want to quit again but are shouldering more responsibility. Or you can take the summer off, go back on Vyvanse, and find yourself in the same predicament next summer. Keep in mind how quickly the body builds tolerance to amphetamines. Any 'reset' to your tolerance level is going to be very short-lived.
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I struggle with my sociability too, and I'm three months off Adderall. It's almost like I don't quite have the energy yet to work and go out, and since I need my job I'm going to prioritize that one. I used to go bar hopping every weekend on the pills too. And boy, did I love to drink on Adderall! I could down beer after beer and never have the slighest hangover the next day. Off the pills I'm not a big drinker at all. Alcohol just makes me too tired without the stimulant-combo effect. I have no desire to go to bars or clubs anymore. But I also figure that I partied a hell of a lot in my 20s (I'm 31 now), so I'm not mourning that lifestyle too terribly. I've just moved on and grown up, I guess.
If you were a social butterfly and/or partier before the Adderall, I'm sure you will be again. It's just a matter of time. I'm more of an introvert, so I know the Adderall brought out the hardcore partying-drinking side of me. My advice to you is to tell your drinking buddies that you just quit Adderall and that you'll be really tired for a while. If you don't want to mention Adderall specifically, just tell them you're stopping a medication and as a side effect you'll be tired and won't feel like going out for a while. This way you won't feel any pressure and they won't bug you about being a homebody for a while. Trust me, your friends will be there when you feel like going out again, especially if drinking was your primary activity.
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Frightening article from the Washington Post about the overuse of psychotropic drugs:
Specifically, the article is about the antipsychotic class of drugs, but you can just as easily replace 'Abilify' with 'Adderrall' and see the same trends and outcomes touched upon. The big pharma-health insurance industrial complex makes me sick.
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Hi Kristen,
A little weight gain is to be expected when quitting Adderall, I'm afraid. The effects of sleeping and eating all the time during withdrawal, combined with a slowed metabolism, are probably going to cause you to put on a few pounds. I think the only people who don't gain any weight when quitting are those that were naturally thin to begin with. And being young helps. I was fairly thin before taking Adderall, and even I gained almost ten pounds in the first two months after quitting. But I also went from age 25 to 30, so it's probably unrealistic to think my body would never have changed regardless of the Adderall.
If you enjoy running, that will help. Any consistent aerobic exercise, really. Healthy protein snacks will help, as will coffee, vitamins and lots of water. But some initial weight gain is usually inevitable. You can always lose it later, when your mind and motivation come back. At some point you may need to decide what's more important: being skinny or being sane and addiction-free.
Many years ago, I worked at a debt negotiation firm, where we helped people settle their credit card and medical debt for less than they owed. It was an alternative to bankruptcy - less hassle. Like bankruptcy, it was a quick way to get out of a lot of debt, but it damaged your credit for a few years. That was the trade-off. Many of our clients were afraid of ruining their credit, so I would ask them, "What's more important: getting out of debt or having good credit? You have to prioritize, because you can't have both at the same time right now." The key phrase was "right now." A few years after a debt negotiation or a bankrutpcy, their credit would rebound and they would be debt-free. Your dilemma is similar. Ask yourself: do you want to be Adderall skinny or do you want to get your life back? You can't have both at the same time right now.
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Comparing l-tyrosine to adderall is like comparing advil to oxycontin. It's an over the counter supplement, like a vitamin, and it won't get you high. I take two 500 mg pills a day. I believe that's the dosage suggested on the bottle.
39 and just started
in Tell your story
Posted
Hi Art,
Adderall 'dependence' (aka addiction) occurs when you need to take it in order to function normally. You won't feel a high when you take it, you'll just need it to feel normal. If you need to start taking it on the weekends I'd say you've reached dependency. Same with if you need to start taking higher dosages to achieve the same effects, although at 40mgs you're on a pretty high starting dose already. When amphetamines and methamphetamines were all the rage in the '50s and '60 for depression and weight loss (ADD hadn't been invented yet), doctors typically prescribed five to ten mgs per day, and pills didn't come in over 10mg doses. Shows you how the American appetite for drugs has grown, eh?
With amphetamines, as with most drugs, you will have a honeymoon period (around a year or so) when it feels like the greatest thing in the world. After the honeymoon phase, they won't work as well as they used to as they deplete more and more of your neurotransmitters. Over time, the negatives will outweigh the positives. Adderall almost ruined my relationship with my husband. I became unloving, cold, distant (his words). I was always in my own head, never cared about anyone else. It ruined my memory.
I also did a lot of coke in my early twenties and stopped that with no problem. Not so with Adderall. I don't have an addictive personality, and I got horribly addicted to Adderall. It's just so easy to add to your life and morph into a highly functional addict for several years. It took my several tries to quit. I've never been addicted to anything else before.
Hopefully these comments help somewhat. If you want more information on amphetamines (other than what the manufacturer wants you to know), I recommend reading the book "On Speed: the Many Lives of Amphetamine" by Nicolas Rasmussen. It's a highly researched account of the history of amphetamines in medicine and American culture. Truly riveting story.
Cassie