EricP

Congrats on your 4mo! You are lucky that our fog lifted so early! I am still fighting it and am around 10mo. The vitamin survey was interesting, of course it is a sales pitch however I found the suggestions worth maybe trying. I take about half of them already however have never heard of a couple of them. I also agree finding good sleep and exercise are a must, exercise seems counter intuitive as low energy does not trigger us to think "I should go exercise" however every time I go I am grateful I did!

TGIF!

@Frank BYeah you are right about the search for supplements. I have gotten a bit sucked in at times. I agree that some things appear to work then fade. I often wonder if it’s more of our minds believing in it sometimes and then the inevitable bad day or crash occurs stripping away the prior hopes. I would love to find a baseline of good vitamins and just stick to a plan however I get frustrated and keep seeking. @sleepystupidI read about pricetram as well a bit among others. Haven’t gone down that route as there are just too many nootropics to choose from and if you read the descriptions of each they all sound a bit “amazing” yet at what other side effects? Too much ACh causes headaches as well. Overall in my discovery leading to this post I basically over did it with vitamins to improve cognitive performance and was getting way too much ACh causing worsened headaches. I already get some headaches that have been remedied by vitamin B2 however adding the increased ACh came really bad Fog and headaches that couldn’t be remedied easily.

After a little experimenting with supplements I have discovered a few things about brain fog. Reading many sites will encourage supplements or a diet containing a high choline to help boost acetylcholine which increases memory, focus and cognitive function. So I tried it... And for me it made it 5 times WORSE. So then I read about having too much acetylcholine and the effects are listed about the same as I experienced using these supplements. So it turns out if dopamine is at a low then acetylcholine tends to be high actually causing a negative effect. Since there is no easy way to boost dopamine without adderall or other prescription methods I decided to stop the choline supplements or any supplement that aids choline; as well as some caution in my diet. While still having the same tiredness and lack of motivation I have noticed a pretty obvious fog lift in mental function. I will continue to experiment and report back however this far this has proven to be pretty useful for me. Also supposedly taking benadryl will also block acetylcholine however in past experience it has a drowsy effect so not sure I will try that just yet. Just though I would share...

Absolutely, I find myself on those days just able to get the absolute necessities done then find as quick of an escape to a couch and netflix. On the days I cannot make an escape I feel like the whole day is a blur yet somehow one foot in front of the other at least show up to my obligations. I take vitamin D among others every day and don’t really feel the effect of any of them. Nothing can substitute for the outdoors for vitamin D. I have read that Adderall fills the brain with so much dopamine that receptors down regulate and even some receptors end up flooded to the point they are flowing in reverse... One of my theriories from all my reading is that our brains off Adderall slowly relearn how to operate on our now normal or sub normal levels however on some days it somewhat forgets how to run correctly and is somewhat waiting to be told what to do and is just a bit idle waiting for that adderall surge that it never receives. Then after some some rest and refueling things then seem to get going again back to a semi normal state. Just a therory, I am not a doctor

It's reassuring that I am not the only one left with PAWS induced hypochondria!

Passing 9mo on to my 10th, I have some pretty good weeks and have been doing a lot better when I keep stress low, exercise and eat well. However then no matter how hard I try eventually a "low" crash or just a down day comes out of nowhere where I find myself googling health symptoms reading about bad things and get my mind spinning on if something worse is wrong with me... I've been to a half dozen docs in the past year and know for the most part I am OK... Just wondered if anyone else shares this feeling or habit when they are down? Sometimes the lows are so strong it just feels like a bigger problem than just quitting adderall..

I’d add my 2 cents however it’s all been pretty well covered here. I was on for 4years with a break in between and lower dose... It’s been a hell the past 9mo if I didn’t work for myself I would have been fired especially early on... If you don’t try a program or get help I would absolutely recommend taperin. However you will feel like crap no matter what. Maybe lower the dose each time after you skip a couple days so the lowered dose actually does take the edge off and doesn’t do so little that you take any more more. Then keep increasing how many days you skip as well as the increased drop in dose. I have thought many times how I would have done it as I did cold turkey and was horrible. Still is and tapering or not quitting is HARD! Stay close to the board as there are so many here with good advise and personal experience that will help greatly. I wish you well and best of luck!

Thank you HC, I totally agree! We all share very similar issues here and diet and exercise is likely the biggest key to getting back on track. It's funny how hard it can seem to adapt to a new healthy lifestyle however it helps so much! I think in ways we are reverse programmed from our parents, doctors, friends etc always preaching to "eat healthy" diet, exercise etc it's a little rebellious in nature to resist it. On top of that adderall has changed our brains no doubt about that and it takes double the work for us to act upon and commit to good habits. I have been doing pretty good this past three weeks in eating and working out daily. I went out of town last weekend which bummed me out as there was no hotel gym, then just eating out of town in general it is hard to order healthy off menus of restaurants you do not know well. I did my best and upon coming home it was difficult already with 2 days off to get back into my healthy routine however I did it and got up early today to work out also before work.

Nice! Will check it out! I do believe Cardio is a huge healer for our body and minds. I have been struggling to push myself to do more cardio lately however so far after about 15-20min on equipment I get pretty much bored and end up with a little different fatigue than I get with weights. Days I over do Cardio often make me want to skip the gym the day after so a progressive approach if definitely key for me.

I have been taking 400mg in the morning and another 400mg in the afternoon after lunch. I have also missed days and took upon the onset of a headache however it is not as effective taken symptomaticly for me. It has really helped when I take it ahead of time as a preventative. I hope it helps, let me know how it works out for you!

Try vitamin B2 200-400mg for the afternoon headaches. My doc turned me on to it and has helped save a ton of Advil for me.

Yeah someone else posted it as well. It seems the trailer is almost promoting it and showing how accepted it’s become. I too hope they really focus on “the cost”

I used when I was 33-35 then again at 43-45. All my doses were under 30mg a day. Quite often 1/3 of that however I took every single day and definelty needed it once it became routine. I also did a fair amount of binge drinking as well. It took a long time after my first round of Adderall to feel somewhat normal again. Exercise became an addiction of mine and at the time I wasn’t really even aware exactly why I felt the way I felt. After my exercise routine faded and life presented new challenges I went back to the same doc. Sitting there 10yrs later and still feeling the something lacking so my doc convinced me to get back on the meds. I must say I had some great years in between, some very amazing times filled with emotions and feelings. As I flash back I would do anything to feel that way again without meds... however I hit some lows and it seems once you have used Adderall your lows can become very low... So I got back on another 2yr patch fix that ended up with some really weird side effects toward the end of round 2 and quit. Here I am 8mo later and while many withdrawal symptoms have faded I still have anhedonia you speak of and my brain just doesn’t feel right for lack of a better explanation. Doctors cant help, I’ve been to nearly a dozen. They will offer more meds however neurological issues like this just can’t be looked at like other parts of our bodies. I have been working on a better diet and exercising this past 2 week straight has really been helping me find “normal feeling moments” I just pray they become longer if I can keep it up. I wish you luck, don’t think about suicide. It really should not be an option considered as will just depress you more. Based on the good times I had between my earlier use I would say they do come back. Just be careful and stay away from getting back into lows and depression.

The trailer makes it seem like an "attractive" and accepted substance of our generation. I really hope they do focus on the negatives and what it does sacrifice.

UPDATE... Well it’s been a little over two weeks since this post. Since then I have committed to make it to the gym every day, haven’t skipped a single day! Even if I was exhausted I at least went to get 20min of cardio and some light weights. On my better days I did at least a full hour. I have need trying to get a range of 20-40 minutes of cardio at my targeted heart rate each day then working my way up slowly with weights. Anyway just by adding this simple routine into my schedule I must say I feel a good 60-70% improvement in overall energy and mental clarity. I still have some small lows and room for improvement however some of the simplest things I realize I am remembering that I would have spaced last month have really surprised myself. I have found many more moments where I was like “wow I feel normal” I also downloaded the headspace app however I have not found a good routine in my day with it yet I can say the few days I used it I felt my anxiety nonexistent and thought process much more clear as well. I know we read it, preach it, want to do it however committing to exercise really does help! I would not advise it too early in recovery however as I think most would crash and end up in some bad lows however once somewhat functing give it a try!

Yeah I hear you. Abuse is one thing however most of us all suffered the lack of "something" leading us to look for help from a doc trying a substance or treatment to help improve ADHD like symptoms our some mental performance issue. Doctors are prescribing this med far too easily and even if ADHD there are tons of better ways to medicate and or treat than this type of medication. Adderall should not be on the market period, IMO. I guess it would be interesting to know what percentage of us would have went to some illegal Meth or Speed if it were not available thru our doctors. I personally don't feel I would have ever done that and feel I followed my doctors advice and at the time the research along with my first use it seemed to "work"! Then the truth sets in! A class action lawsuit would not be about the money for me. Its about waking up the industry and the FDA. Class action lawsuits rarely ever benefit the victims much. I made my choice to take the meds and with everything there is a "cost" I just feel like it is has stripped me of quality of life and productivity that is hard to measure in years to come. Hard to put a value on that however it is substantial especially if we all added ours up collectively.

I have seen very few posts here about the desire to start a class action lawsuit. I wonder if it is because we all are struggling to just get by each day and don’t have the fight in us to take on anything else or if it’s just because no one is coming to us asking to join the cause?? I wonder who exactly would be sued? FDA or all the Pharma companies?? There is Adderall (brand name) and then other brand names for basically the same thing on top of the generics so it seems that it would be a complex case to pin down one guilty party. One thing is for sure in reading everything on this site over the past 8mo plus other medical studies; there is compelling evidence that the FDA should consider removing this as a legal medication and Pharma companies should be held responsible for their participation.

Totally understood!! I get frustrated also as even after months I still have what I call “crash days” after good ones where I just end up wiped out and almost stuck on the couch all day. The anxiety is near gone now for me however finding consistent energy is still a challenge. Coffee does nothing for me still other than the smell/taste therapeutic effect on cold mornings...

I second that! Don’t go back on at this point!! My doses were also low however I was on it longer and I am a bit older. I can tell you I did nearly the same thing, stopped cold turkey and rushed to my GP thinking I was going to die. I didn’t even connect the dots in choosing to not take my meds while recooperating from a cold. The first 1-2 months I had the worse panic attacks. I had lorazepam (similar to Xanax) that I would only take if totally freaking out. You will still have occasional uneasy anxiety after that thru the PAWS process however you’ll learn to manage it. There are other vitamins you can take to help calm your nerves like 5htp, magnesium, lithium orotate, theanine, melatonin etc. google them a bit. I take lithium orotate with vitamins in the morning. The rest I take before bed to assure a good nights sleep however can be experimented with in the day (besides melatonin) as well. Welcome to the forum, keep posting your questions and your progress. We all help each other here!

Cool! I was just using Headspace the other day however just the free ones. They were helpful even though very short. I will have to consider subscribing.

Awesome to read Tom, you are doing some great things! I have read a lot about how Keto really helps mental clarity. As for your meditation do you use any specific methods, pod casts etc or are you just going for pure silence? I have tried a few times however haven’t found what works for me yet...

I wouldn’t be surprised if mine is affected by some of the same thing. I bought numerous legal “performance boosters” of many varieties back in the peak of my fitness days. I recall many being pulled later after FDA reviewed them. GHB was even popular for awhile even as it would knock you out however promote fat burning while you slept. Worst case of low T is all I have to worry about then I’ll do what I need to do.

I have had blood work done and basically everything is good except my Testerone is has been low out of 3 tests only one was barely within normal range. There is a direct relationship between dopamine and testosterone that I have read about... Now have been referred to another doc to evaluate if I should do hormone therapy or not. Plus some diet changes and exercise encouraged. What was your treatable diagnosis?

I haven’t made it as far as you yet still noticing negative changes... I notice my muscle tone has changed for the worse in these months since quitting. I was much more physically active on addy so was toned and muscular. I have not really gained much weight since quitting however the areas I appreciated a little bulk have shifted to the mid sections. I think my lack of drive to do anything more that “what’s necessary” has a lot to do with it. I plan to really commit to a workout routine shortly and we shall see how that goes!