Motivation_Follows_Action

I can't help but think of this (sorry, I know I've posted it before). And this is not to diminish in any way your all consuming OCD behaviors. It just highlights how sadly close adderall addition and meth addiction really is.

Please stay close and let us know how you are doing. And for every post you read, have a big gulp of water!

Congrats, Cassie! And you're so right, IR. You know the adage: do what you love and you will never work a day in your life. One thing that helped me during my job search was to think to myself, "would I do this job if I had to do it for free?". That told me what my passion really was. And whether I should persue it or not.

Thanks for checking in. I had 2 immediate thoughts while reflecting on your (extremely well articulated) post: 1) You, my poor friend, are a walking case study of everything that is wrong with the pharmaceutical industry. You entrusted your health to "highly trained professionals" and look what happened. Now you have a quagmire of mental and physical health challenges, as well as a myriad of addictions to recover from. Yes, sure, you were a willing subject, but there has to be some kind of recognition somewhere that what happened to you is in direct violation to the hypocratic oath?! 2) You're doing a really nice job of seeing yourself as the observer of yourself, without judgment. That's very hard to do (for me anyway) as I tend to get really guilty about all the things I'm not, or people I've disappointed, or why am I not perfect or "better" yet. Your approach of "noticing things" about your own recovery, and factual recounting of what you've been experiencing, was really refreshing to read. Thanks for being honest and yet not sorrowful or preachy. Please stay in touch. Your journey is everywhere, so you're speaking to people in ways you'd never believe.

I think this is one I can manage. I'll start on the weekend because I'm delivering a 2 day conference starting at 7am tomorrow. But I will try for a 1.3 mile walk. Thanks for inspiring me to do something I know I can do.

Ok I am officially going to stop reading this thread. You people make me happy/sad Let me edit myself: Happy for your amazing strength and determination; sad that I don't have it!

You said EXACTLY what I have been thinking of late. In fact I said almost that exact thing to my therapist last night. The thing about covering your shame and fears with any kind of veil is that they are still there, underneath. Oh how we waste time trying to build a fortress over a pit of quicksand. Time to do some excavating.

Congratulations Jessy. Is this the first time you've quit for over a week? That's a big milestone. One thing to perhaps think about as you push on. Do you know what led you to take adderall in the first place? Because those demons will creep up again when you least expect it and you'll need to be prepared to face them. I believe we all take adderall to be more confident. If you disagree, say so... but I bet I'm right. Think about why you want to be more confident and why you are lacking confidence and there is your prevention from relapsing ever again. Breaking free from the addition is much deeper than just stopping taking a pill. Keep in touch as you peel the onion....

Wow, this has been a really busy thread. And interesting that there are lots of people who could relate... especially after a reasonable period of time. I remember once someone (might have been Ashley?) said they expected that after 6 months they expected to wake up one day and just be "cured". I guess I inadvertently thought that was going to be me after 9 months. I've been reflecting and I know we have discussed this before, but there is something powerful in realizing that what is going on is a confluence of 4 (maybe more) things, all happening simultaneously, in our lives: 1) On adderall, we adjusted our thinking to believe that shit just got done. We got up, popped a pill, and got to it. Easy. That was our new normal. So adjusting back to the "actual" normal, where we put shit off until the last possible moment because that's what humans do, is a hard adjustment 2) Our brains are starved of dopamine now we've come off it, so the "new normal" we have to adjust to is in fact the opposite end of the spectrum... the pendulum swinging back the other way. The next new normal is a shitty "I really cannot do anything productive and I hate myself for it". So that makes it even harder. 3) Not to mention that we have a lot of sifting through all the messes we caused and shit we stirred up during our 2,3,5, 15 year stint of being high all the time. Damaged families, finances, self esteem, self identity, grades, you name it. The last dark days of adderall addiction are messy living defined, and cleaning up takes a lot of strength and vulnerability... and... 4) Our expectations of ourselves after quitting are probably far greater than they should be. I remember posting to this board 5 weeks after quitting and losing everything how desperate I was to land the perfect executive job. Everyone was telling me, "slow down, it's going to take a while", and now I know what they mean. So all of these factors lead me to believe our lives right now are kind of like landing a mig-29 on a pitching deck (for reference, documentary fans this is an awesome metaphor! ). Nothing is stable, we don't know where we are, and everything is skewed. All we have is our instincts and trust in ourselves that there is safety ahead. Anyway, enough of the belabored metaphors. Just wanted to share those insights. They made me put things in perspective a bit.

Just wanted to say it is taking a bloody long time to go away. I've been clean 9 or 10 months and the last few days/week have been awful. Cravings, lethargic, stressed, anxious. Can't sleep, eating to suppress my anxiety, then I end up sleeping for 13 hours straight and am stupidly late for work. I am really behind on some significant work projects and I'm just plain exhausted. I am wondering what's going on. Did anyone experience struggles 9 or 10 months in????

http://www.amazon.com/Daring-Greatly-Courage-Vulnerable-Transforms/dp/1592407331 most enlightening book I've read in a really long time. I missed my subway stop the other day because of it!

... and getting it wrong (see, like saying there's 4 concepts when really there's only three)...

Four concepts here (great question, by the way): Failure Being judged harshly by others, and them being right (stupid, crazy, ugly, selfish) The future

Occasional1, There are 2 schools of thought about Wellbutrin...or any other antidepressant, especially those that target dopamine receptors (ie can have speed like properties). One is my own: I am genetically and [more recently, due to adderall] artifically dopamine deficient, and I need help to rebalance these deficiencies. That is what wellbutrin has been produced for... people like me. I am fairly liberal when it comes to crazy meds and on/off label use and it has helped me tremendously. I am pretty sure I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for wellbutrin (I have family members on both sides who've topped themselves and my parents are both bipolar II, although both refuse to get offically diagnosed). The other is that of your partner, and it's a compelling argument: that once you start on wellbutrin you will be artificially producing more dopamine and that's not "nature's way" of healing. Before you ever started taking adderall, did you ever suffer depression? Have you ever been diagnosed with depression or ADHD or any other mental or personality issues? Has anyone in your family ever suffered depression? If the answer is no, then your partner is probably right. If the answer is yes, then you are probably have a predisposition for it. Im going to go out on a limb and make a HUGELY blind, totally inappropriate and highly unscientific assessment based on the "you" that has been represented here over the last few months. Based on the following observations, I'd say you may have a tendency towards emotionality & passion, you "feel things more deeply" than others, you are a creative and tortured soul but you'd rather be creative and tortured than boring and comfortable. Now I don't know that those traits are correlated to depressives, but I'd be interested to see the data on it. Also, didn't you say you're a philosophy major/post-grad? Now I'm really going to say something irresponsible, but without exception, every philosophy major I have ever met has been slightly unsettled, if you know what I mean. Don't get me wrong, I find that to be a magnetic quality, but you do have to wonder if people who chose to make a living by asking hard questions about the meaning of existence aren't going to find themselves feeling slightly overwhelmed or despondent sometimes. But this doesn't answer your question. In fact you didn't really ask a question, so it certainly doesn't answer it! But my point is, whichever decision you take, do it for the reasons you're comfortable with, and don't second-guess yourself. Or take it, and decide it's not for you, and stop taking it. One final thought: wellbutrin is not addictive, but you can have withdrawal symptoms if you stop suddenly. What's the difference, you ask? Well, I'm a walking case study. I forgot to refill my prescription a few times for wellbutrin (or was traveling and I ran out) and within 3 or 4 days I was wondering why I couldn't stop weeping and wanted to eat myself to sleep every night. So if you're going to take it, you have to commit to it. Hope that helps...

Just to quit once's comments about gerd, I read that adderall is highly acidic (amphetamine SALTS), so maintaining an alkaline diet during recovery is recommended.

Heather, I'm just proud of you for posting when you're really down. You have friends and support here. The first whole was godawful for me and I'm lucky to be here to talk about it. So moan and bitch and cry. We are all here for that.

Brandy, your self awareness is a strength: you are aware of all the things you're doing to chip away at your real self and yet you're ruining your mental and emotional capacity because you're terrified of eating. Gaining weight must be your worst fear in the world... More than getting ugly (your hair already is ugly, and that hasn't stopped you), getting insular and selfish and ruining your teeth and losing friends. If I were you, I'd develop another passion outside pageantry. One where you can be free to create and no one gives a shit how you look. Then you can throw off the shackles that are binding you to a lifestyle that will eventually destroy you. And guess what? You may look young for a 36 year old now, but you'll look over 40 in a year if you keep popping pills. (And yes it is the voice of experience - I am 40 and spend no end of money on trying to restore my destroyed, dehydrated skin and hair). You're a good person with a big heart. I hope you can tell yourself that as well. Good luck.

Hi Defeated, Not sure if you are still reading this forum but I am so sorry for both of you. I have been in your wife's shoes, almost exactly. Only now, 9 months in to quitting, am I realizing the deepest reasons I chose to take adderall and disconnect from my life. Like Occasional1 so wisely says, I took adderall to numb the pain of my life: I had found out my husband had been cheating, and that upped my dosage. Then I found out he'd been trading extremely risky options, and had lost almost all our money (we were going to buy an apartment in NY with cash), of which I contributed about about 80%. So I upped my dose. Then I lost my job. So I upped my dose. Then I started another job, so I upped my dose. Then more infidelity.... (This time on my side - I was no longer a human, I was a mess of irrationality and disinhibitation, immediately followed by extreme paranoia and depression). Eventually I went in to psychosis and landed in hospital. I'm glad that happened, actually, because it saved my marriage. I am slowly unpacking all the hurt I caused and peeling the onion, and I realize we both are equally accountable for the hurt we caused each other. If, in a quiet way, you can tell her you would love to really know why she started taking adderall, and just listen, maybe you will hear the frightened little girl inside her that just wanted some confidence, some control. I told my husband I would never give up either. And the only thing he could do (and still has to do, from time to time, the scars are very deep for me for a number of reasons), is apologize. Ask her what words she wishes she could hear from you, and then say them (unless they're emotionally abusive of course). Your kids must be suffering so much. I'm sure they miss their mum.

Hi Lea, I stopped taking the atro-phex because it felt a bit like being overcaffeinated. I got the jitters. You're right about the remembering thing! After coming back to the forums a bit more recently, I remembered to go to the health food store today and stock up. I haven't taken any supplements for about a month. Duh, no wonder I feel shitty. I bought L-Tyrosene 1000 (I used to take 1000 in the morning and 1000 at about lunchtime), DMEA ( and sublingual B12. I also have a really high quality multivitamin that is just sitting on the shelf. I did think those little packets of whatever it was that was sent to me by that company trying to use this platform as a marketing tool...(had racetams etc in it, you know, a "proprietary blend"), helped, but it was super expensive and I'm pretty sure I could replicate it myself without too much effort. It's just the damned consistency thing that I gotta get better at!!

You just so articulately described that can't-put-my-finger-on-it-but-hate-the-way-I-feel-right-now feeling that I guess is connected to PAWS. I wonder when those stop. By the way, some brilliant insights here and amazing writing. I'm really impressed with you guys and gals. I've been here less frequently recently (too damned busy at work) but I'm always struck by the insights that resonate with me and bring me back to the empty, erratic, distracted, disillusioned version of myself when I was on adderall.

oh, I forgot to say. Anti depressants are useful ONLY if coupled with therapy. Otherwise it is a very expensive, inconvenient bandaid. Are you in therapy, H?

I think everyone here knows I've been taking Wellbutrin for a really long time... like 8 years. Including through my adderall days. I never really stopped taking it, except for a few accidental times here and there. And recently, a few things happened: 1) I was prescribed lexapro, 10mg x 1 daily. That's not a big dose. 2) I went from 150mg SR 2xdaily wellbutrin to 300 1xdaily 3) I started to feel really odd. mood swings, extreme bouts of emotionality, nihilistic thinking, etc. 4) I switched doctors. 5) My new doctor is amazing. She said to me that my brain needs dopamine, not seratonin, because that's what it has been craving. Especially since adderall. 6) She put me on 3x100 SR wellbutrin daily, and I am tapering off the lexapro I am finally starting to feel normal again. I think the punchline here is that well, doctors don't really have the faintest idea what they're doing and it's all a crap shoot; and also if you think something is not working, it's probably not. SSRIs are just bad news for me. I get lethargic and despondent and I knew this from my Prozac days, but I was hoping we'd "evolved" to a different era. Now I know we haven't really, and it's up to each of us to know our bodies and find the right help. I'm still not there, quite, yet... maybe I never will be. I'm learning to accept that crippling depression may be my baseline and I will learn to deal with it in a way that is partly prescribed, and mostly through my own discovery. But anyway, Heather, I am glad you're still around these parts ad still posting. I think of you often and hope you know that you can be honest here, and we will always welcome you. Don't let the harsh words of the well-intended-but-sometimes-judgy voices here deter you from being fully open... it's a lifelong struggle that we all deal with. And well, you know, recovery is not a linear process. It's good to know you're out there. And celebrate the wins, rather than berrating yourself for not being 100% clean yet.

Infinitya, I'm sorry you are putting your body through that terrible pain just to feel ok about yourself in public/the mirror. I, too, began taking adderall partially for weight loss. And i went through all though all the things you said, and I quit and yes, gained weight. The biggest, most important lesson for me about adderall and weight is that well, it really isn't about the weight after all. It's about self acceptance. Self loathing, like relationships, or trust, is something built up over time in small little moments. One day someone says something to us that makes us frown and think, "really? I never realized I was like that... I must have something wrong with me". And then we become a little more sensitive to hearing it again, and then we start looking for evidence in ourselves that we are, indeed, not normal or there is something wrong with us. We become convinced of it. When I first moved to NYC about 10 years ago, I would walk down 5th Ave and just stare at all these statuesque, beautiful (but harsh-looking) women. I wondered how they all got like that... I mean, all of them, everywhere! How did NYC breed such effortlessly beautiful, well dressed women? But still, I said to myself I would not get manicures every week, wouldn't bleach my hair, wouldn't spend all my money on shoes and skincare and blowouts. Well, here I am 10 years later with perfectly manicured hands and platinum hair. One bedroom of my apartment was turned in to a wardrobe, and I cannot count all my shoes. My point about all of this is that if we allow ourselves to listen to the constant downgrading of ourselves that happens at every moment, we will lose our self esteem. I was more insecure at 38 than I ever was at 28. Why? because I allowed myself to listen to the voices around me, and to compare myself with others, and develop a perfectionistic mindframe that eventually led me to adderall. The ironic thing is that even though I was skinny, I aged about 5 years in 2. People from a couple of years ago that I run in to now say how tired I look (even post adderall) and that I need a vacation, even if I'm feeling fine. So for you, my dear friend, because you are so young and you have so much traveling of life's journey ahead of you, challenge you to look beyond the immediate question to the stuff that's lying just beneath it... that's the source of your insecurities, your pain. Adderall, xanax, boyfriends, haircuts, study, music, film won't make that go away. You just have to find the time and courage to go to your darkest place and learn to like yourself again. Sorry for the lecture, and yes, I am telling my own story. I'm facing this every day, and I've been clean for months. Love, Another tortured woman. xx

I need to lift. I'm thin enough, I walk around in and around NYC so I get those walks in. But I have no muscle tone and, well, you know, gravity. But you're right about consistency.

I'm noticing that further along in to recovery, mood swings are common and surprising. Even scary. Also seems like most of us have them. I said to someone the other day that its like life has no "natural rhythm" any more. And then I realized that I basically stunted my growth for the 5 years I was on adderall. I have to grieve the loss of my 30s, and the joy I robbed myself of, and the pain I never had time to heal through. You can never really run away. You can only run in circles and get frustrated in the process. Wherever life takes you, you are still you. That's hard for me to take.