Motivation_Follows_Action

Just catching up on this thread now. Few thoughts: When I was going through earlier recovery (and sometimes these days too), I feel like I am losing my mind. My mood swings can be - well let's pit it this way - I don't envy whoever is around me. In fact, I was told by one doc I was bipolar II and another that I had borderline personality. This I think is a great example of what complete bullshit the medical profession is. I Know I'm neither of those things. But stress, anxiety, deep depression and amphetamines are going to take a sane, slightly questioning human being and turn them in to a raving lunatic. A doc tried to recommend lamictal to me. I thought, enough is enough. I am already on Wellbutrin, and something for my highly photosensitive skin (I'm so pale I burn just thinking about the sun :-)) and something for my PCOS, and the contraceptive pill. I look at my bathroom cabinet and it is full of little yellow bottles. Like I used to see in the movies as a kid and I would think, wow, that person must be reaaaallyy sick. I know I'm not really sick. I am, however, sick of being over-diagnosed, over-prescribed, over-psychoanalysed. I know what I need to so is so simple: stop trying to be the best at everything all the time, take time to appreciate the environment and people around me, get outside more, experience new and different things, spend time with friends that doesn't involve spending huge amounts of money or talking about bullshit material things. Eat right, treat my body like something I actually want to nurture, and take care of. It is really only now after all this time and really the last 4 years of destruction that I am starting to understand that the world will never stop demanding things of me. And I will never be a guru or a saint. But if I can start with being consistent in my attitude towards myself - that I am worth taking care of - then I can know how it feels, and that will help me take care of others too. Anyway, back to you reset brain. I would just gently challenge you to take a walk or drive or something and just reflect on who you know you are, deep down inside. Maybe you don't know (I certainly didn't a few short months ago), in which case make it a process of discovery! You are worthy. You are smart. You will figure it out. And personally, for me, anti-psychotic drugs were not the answer. Sorry for the tome :-)

Zerokewl, Nice reflection! This forum is full of people who are at the same time thoughtful, caring, smart and take-no-prisoners. You fit right in. I was just going to mention a psychological term used to describe highly selfish people... Users, should I say; narcissists. But it goes beyond the narcissism with some people to a fully blown mental health issue when they become neglected. Have a look at the concept of "idealize devalue then discard". Get informed on sociopathic and psychopathic behavior. At least, even if next time you are with the guy you are looking at it from the outside not the other way around. I say enjoy the power!

You guys are part of the reason I feel ok about it! It's easy to say and hard to do... Be gentle with yourself.

You have hit on something really big here. Self confidence, as I learned the hard way, does not come from external validation. It doesn't come from pats on the back or a big title or a fat paycheck. Self confidence comes from knowing that no matter what steaming pile of shit you happen to be walking through, you are going to be ok. It's right, Cassie, it's about faith. I look back to this time last year when my addiction was at its peak - I would go from place to place, hardly remembering what had happened 20 mins before, move on the whatever was the next thing to grab my attention (usually some detailed process that needed unraveling and of course it made perfect sense to me that this wasn't a job for a junior person, it was mine all mine)? And disenfranchise people and never follow up and never take any risks, unless they were mammoth and usually cringe-worthy. Anyway, just back to your point Cassie, developing confidence should be a bi-product of trying new things that interest you and that you get good at. I need to think about that more, now I'm getting maternal, dammit? Nice to be in touch, sorry for the rambling in...

Hey everyone, I've set up a gmail account: quittingadderall@gmail.com. Send an email to that account with where and when you'd like to meet and I will pull something together (if it hasn't been done already). I'm out of town til first week in October but might be able to come back for this during the last week in September. Thinking early evening; we will need help with a venue.

Thanks for posting - wow that's some strength there, to quit both smoking and adderall at the same time? No wonder your body is responding like it is - you took away all the pleasure chemicals! Did you know that dopamine is produced by the addict twice in the addict's mind? One is of course the drug itself, and the other is the rush you get of being able to know you're taking the drug soon. That's why we develop drug rituals (I used to hide my pills in a hatbox and the pleasure I got from taking that bottle out if the hatbox and putting the pink pill in my hands, was admittedly pretty big). Your brain is severely lacking dopamine and is trying to fix itself. It took a long time to ruin, it will take a long time to get back. It hasn't been a year for me (about 9 months) and I still am pretty sure I'm nowhere near over this. That's why I keep fucking up. My brain chemistry needs to rerun to normal and I need to be patient. Like you! Be patient with your body, and kind to it. It's put up with a lot of abuse from you ;-)...

Oh wow. I'm so sorry you're in this place. I can almost feel your depression and paranoia seeping through in your writing. I agree 100 percent with what everyone here has said, and a few other little thoughts as I read through your posts: You say your relationship with your gf is pure, but the foundation of it is built on lies. Seems like you have 3 options: tell her and quit, and ask for her support and apologize and hope your relationship is strong enough to survive; don't tell her and quit, and risk losing her that way (which sounds like no bigger a risk than the former, except you won't have been honest with her about the reasons for the change); or don't quit (and either tell her or don't tell her). All of those options suck. Every one of them. I'm so sorry. Only you can decide which path you want to take. The worst thing you can do is not make a decision because then the drug will make the decision for you, and on the doses you are on, with the lack of sleep and nutrition and water, I would say that amphetamine psychosis is right around the corner (it happened to me and I lost my (kinda big) career and nearly my husband). One other observation: you really want to be able to enjoy life - that's probably why you started your own business in the first place. You were a lover of freedom and probably enjoyed the creativity and opportunity that it brought. Adderall has stolen that from you. All the things that made you successful, adderall has taken from you. But the good news is, you have the ultimate power over the drug, not the other way around! You seem like a strong person. If you can channel what strength you have left in believing there is hope, that things will eventual get better, and that in order to survive, you will have to take some course of action, then you will be ok. Just don't let that bitch of a drug do all the decision making for you. And stay close! We know what you're going through and can help you. So sorry you're in this place. So what will you decide? Will you tell her? Will you quit?

Kori: what were you scared of? I understand that fear of failure, but also remember that adderall breeds horrible paranoia and anxiety. Don't let the nature of the drug blind you from overcoming the bloody thing! Can you dust off the plan and have another go? My mum used to say, when she got me out of bed, "Today is a day with no mistakes in it!"

Waronwar: proud of you, it's never easy and each time you begin again you have to remember it's like the first time! Is there any way you could go to rehab? Jbgods and Kori: how are you doing?

Hey1Bad, what is the strategy you know you can employ to make sure you avoid compulsive spending like this again?

Well, I'm gonna go out there and say it... big deep breath... I lost my job. Again. I left last week. Was told it was due to Headcount reductions and last in first out etc etc (the firm wasn't making a lot of money which I found out the day after I joined when they posted their first ever loss as a company, and its gone downhill since then) But when I think about my performance in this job... Honestly? I wasn't ready. I took on too much too soon and I should have rested and got my confidence back. I saw this job as my nirvana, a chance to redeem myself, and I did what usually leads to doom: I over-invested myself: traveling 70% of the time, client lunches, client dinners, thought I could break the record of the first new hire ever to bring in a big deal within 3 months of joining blah blah. In the end, I was exhausted and started to get emotional about decisions and things. It was like I was on adderall but I wasn't. All those feelings of being strung out and wired were strangely repeating themself, but this time without the drug. I almost didn't post that here because I don't want to cause alarm, but I want to be honest with all of you and remind you that adderall addiction is a serious fucking thing and it takes a LOONG TIME to get over. So now, I'm in a very interesting spot. I'm jobless, and my (once stellar) resume makes me look, well, less than loyal and is probably going to raise eyebrows (3 jobs in 3 years, all very senior? was there something wrong, they will ask), but you know what? For the first time in probably 5 years, I really coudn't care less what "they" think. Sure I may have no income right now which will be a problem in a couple of months, but right now, I need to give myeslf time and space to regain my confidence and remember that I don't need to prove anything to anyone, except myself. It's a nice place to be. And I'm having FUN! Reading and taking in the world, without fear, just being. (don't get me wrong I do get anxiety a lot for no apparent reason, but I'm working on it!) I just don't know how I'm ever going to want to go back to work again... being a housewife is, for the first time ever for me, kind of nice! (for now... I would probably want to kill the neighbor's dog after a while... but for now..) I think I'm learning the lessons I should have learned during my early recovery days. Everything is going to be ok. It's going to work out. That's all any recovering adderall addict needs to know.

I love it! Getting Shit Done club. Sign me up! Who's going to do my shit for me?

Another interesting thread! First off, zerokewl, I commend you for entertaining the prospect of being in touch with someone who'd hurt you before. That takes bravery (or stupidity, take it from the girl whose heart has been broken over and over by agreeing to go on "just a drink and a catch up" with ex-boyfriends). But in your case, it seems like it was a really positive thing. Not sure if this helpful, but I'm reading a really great book at the moment called, "Daring Greatly". The author has done some interesting research on the topic of vulnerability, and i think what might be going on between us and the views we're putting forward, is a reflection on what the book says.. putting yourself out there, especially when you've been hurt before, is one of the most terrifying things you can do. It's like our brains say to us that we have to choose a binary state - between either self protection and guardedness, or being open and potentially getting hurt again. Maybe you can arrive at a place where you being open doesn't cause you pain (or the potential for pain) and you can appreciate the situation and your "friend" for what he is... a human, flawed, hurting etc... and yet this person poses no threat to you. Because you're safe. That's the place I think we are all trying to get to. A safe place within ourselves. To live those five words for the last 7 or 8 years for me has been the biggest challenge of all. Adderall numbed the ache, for a while, and made me feel confident... until it all came crashing down and I'm still living through the consequences. Anyway, sorry for the rambly message (I promise I'm not on adderall I just haven't logged in for a while so I'm really excited to hear everyone's stories!), I just wanted you to know that to put yourself out there, like you did, is a pretty remarkable thing. It takes strength to be vulnerable, and not hurt. Go, you!

Interesting thread. Moving back to the theme of inspiration for writing and adderall, here's a funny story. A friend of mine, whom I suspected was on adderall, confirmed this for me when I received an email from her at 3 o'clock in the morning. It wasn't just the time stamp on the email that confirmed that she was tweaking her brains out when she wrote it, but the style of writing was so esoteric {badly esoteric, not like Joyce or something) and rambling, it just made me sad. I could tell that when she wrote it, she was probably thinking it was one of the best pieces of literature she'd ever written. She probably spent hours on it. It was full of belabored metaphors and repetition, it was onerous and difficult to read. Having been off it for a number of months now (can't really remember actually), it made me really sad to read her writing. It brought me right back to the height of my addiction, when I would do an all-nighter on a powerpoint presentation that others around me would do in 2 hours, and then move on to something else. And I would think that my work was SO OUTSTANDING, I'd be immediately heralded as the best thinker of my contemporaries. In actual fact, I got a reputation as being pig-headed, falling in love with my own ideas, beligerent to others, and still not producing work that was any better than anyone else's. But I digress. I'm not going to comment on Kerouac (I read OTR when I was 19 and thought it was the most magnificent piece of literature ever created... so much so I made it a mission to travel to San Francisco from Australia to go to the City Lights bookstore and breathe his spirit... ), but I am commenting on the original post. Sure, Adderall might make you FEEL like you're writing better stuff. But you are not. You most definitely are not. And you might be churning out volumes, but quantity doesn't make quality; and at the other extreme, obsessing over minor details is not going to make a mediocre piece an outstanding one. And... end of soap box sermon. Thanks for the interesting topic!

There is a pills anonymous group in Manhattan, you can google it. I wrote about it elsewhere - attended only once. Zhenka, thanks for suggesting a group, I probably should have done it months ago. I will email you! Maybe we can pair up and offer something more regularly.

I'm late to the party, but congratulations from me too. It is the hardest thing I have ever done. YOU WILL OVERCOME!

This really is a great thread, and I am lapping up all the threads I've missed since traveling and working so much! I was thinking: I don't think I know anyone personally who is addicted to adderall, but I do have one friend who says she only takes it occasionally. She's a beautiful woman, inside and out; but I think I can tell when she's tweaking because she gets really self-centered and totally bitchy. She ruins the atmosphere for everyone around her. I was out with her a few weekends ago and I wondered what was going on in her life to make her so full of rage at the smallest little things and I didn't realize til later that adderall may have been to blame. Of course, I can't be certain. But I am certain that if it is the case, WOW. It really can change who you are. And not for the better, either. Kind of scary.

How are you going, Occasional1? I think of your positive and genuine spirit sometimes, it lifts my day.

l went to a pills anonymous meeting in NYC. I expected it to be jam-packed; NYC is full of people on something. When I arrived, I thought I was in the wrong place because I was the only one there, and the room was tiny. After a while, a middle-aged guy who sounded kind of drunk (and definitely depressed) showed up. The meeting ran exactly like an AA/NA meeting, which is fine (but I don't really know how those work because I've only been to a few AA and OA meetings in my life). It was just the two of us, until... thank GOD, another woman around my age showed up. She was pretty awesome actually. Very smart, articulate, was struggling with benzos. We couldn't wait til the meeting was over so we could actually talk. I wanted to go out and get a coffee with her afterwards but both of us had to get home. So anyway, that was my experience with Pills Anonymous. It really makes me wonder why it is so unpopular?

I'm so, so glad to hear you're coming of the Klonopin, Ashley! I know it sounds hypocritical of me to say this but if I was to have my friends and loved ones avoid one drug, it would be this one. It just seems to be so physically taxing on the body, and so hard to quit. I've missed you, Ashley and IR

I think the warning sign for me was when I wanted to combine Xanax and alcohol. I knew I was trying to numb myself from something, and that's what adderall was for me during addiction... it had a numbing effect. Last week I was on vacation and it was not relaxing at all, for a number of reasons. One night I took 1.5 Xanax and drank 2 glasses of wine. Although I enjoyed the numbness, I really couldn't even speak properly. Worst thing was I was hosting a dinner party and supposed to help create conversation and connect people. Sure, the anxiety was GONE but so was my decorum. That was my wake up call. Things are ok with me. I am feeling stronger as a person than I have in years, but I am having more trouble on the work front. I loved my job for a while but have made some judgment errors and been rather emotional and erratic, which isn't great for a new hire, and my company is a little wary of me. Couple that with my anxiety and self-confidence issues, and it hasn't been a great few weeks. I may think about resigning and doing something else for a while. Maybe the universe is telling me that I'm just not cut out for Corporate Life any more. But it is hard to look at failure so often, especially after so many years of top-of-my-game success. Thanks for asking... sorry to be a Debbie downer; I'm really ok! Just life happening around me, you know...

I agree with 1Bad88. Recovery is such an individual thing. For me, it's been a fucking wild ride. I honestly couldn't tell you whether I feel generally better or not because I am experiencing such highs and lows and in betweens that keeping track of it is exhausting. One thing I will say, having spent some time away from the forums, is that sometimes I was guilty of paying TOO much attention to my mood, rather than getting on with life. I was being a little too reductive in thinking that because I felt weepy or tired, it was a PAWS day; or if I felt great it was a step-towards-recovery. I have tried to let the moods and the feelings wash over me, and let them pass, and keep on. I find that to be the most reassuring way to live. And it sounds a lot easier than it is.

What a great thread. Firstly, that the support for Lunax is here, even though she admitted to relapsing. That's strength, and forgiveness. Although I haven't been around a lot lately, I think the break from the forums has been both good and bad: good because I was spending too much time here and there was a lot of life to be had right outside my window (!), and bad because I have been really, really tempted to start back on the adderall and if I'd come here earlier I would have gotten my dose of reality and support, rather than battling it out by myself. Anyway, not to detract from what you're going through Lunax. We all know how hard it is. We fight it every day.

Hi IR, I've been lurking around but with barely any time to post lately. But your message compelled me to log in. I'm having exactly the same issue. Since quitting adderall, I haven't ever experienced the kind of anxiety I did before, even during the period I took it. I mean, it's really bad. I can be sitting on the couch doing nothing and all of a sudden a wave of sudden fear paralyses me. Last week I had a panic attack... for the first time in about 13 years. I take it almost every day, and I need to have it on me at all times. I don't know if it is the placebo effect but even just having it on me relieves the stress. That concerns me, but then I think of the alternative, which is chronic anxiety and/or benzos, and I tell myself it is ok. Apart from that, how are you doing IR? Despite evidence to the contrary, I do think of you often.

Hey friends! Sorry it's been a while. But I wanted to echo Occasional1's comment about the "likes" bit disappearing. Maybe we should write Mike a note. Sounds like there are some bugs that need fixing. More soon!