Motivation_Follows_Action

Uuuggghhh another adderall memory just came flooding back spurred on from your restaurant/waiting tables experience. I was on a business trip (yeah, I know, that's all I ever did and all my stories have some kind of business trip in them), this time in Europe in some fancy restaurant in Geneva. I was really jetlagged and popping pills left and right. Anway, at this particular dinner the Big Boss was sitting next to me and he seemed very interested in engaging me in conversation. Shit, I thought....not only could I not stand the sight of most of the people around me (I had WORK to do, don't THEY?!?!!), but I was exhausted and running low on addies. So I had to surreptitiously reach down in to my bag, pull out my Altoids container (where stash was kept) out of my handbag under my seat, hide the Altoids in my napkin, open it and slip a couple of pills down with a big gulp of wine when he wasn't looking. I thought I was sooooo smooth in all of this. Thing was, I kind of forgot to put the Altoids container (with about 30 pills in) back in to my bag, and there it remained scrunched up in my napkin. Forever. I realized when I got back to my hotel later that night that I wouldn't have any adderall to last me the rest of the business trip, which was about 3 days. I honestly thought I was going to die without them... I actually went to the front desk of the hotel and asked if there was a doctor whom I could see while in town. Then I stopped and realized what I was doing... everyone would know about this... so I turned around and went back to my room. The next day I took a couple of hours off in the afternoon and convinced a taxi driver in my broken French to take me back to the restaurant (which I only remembered the name of, no clue where it was), and begged the waitstaff to give the drugs back to me I would give them a HEFTY reward. But no, they'd probably ingested them all the cocks. Back to work it was. Ugh. The next day was an all-day meeting with the Board (UGHHHH) and I swear I drank more coffee that day than I have done before or since. Oh and I ate nearly the entire lunch buffet. Someone even asked me if I was pregnant "because you are eating for two" chortle chortle... I wanted to deck him, except I didn't have the energy. What a nightmare. Aaaaaand that's the story for today, folks!

You and your way with words, sky. How is any one of us supposed to top THAT?!

I would love to hear more about the military - I've heard it's rife, and part of the reason there is so much PSTD and depression when soldiers return... dunno maybe Kyle can chime in ...

Reminds me... have you seen this?

OK for those of us who aren't natives... would you care to expound?

Debra: First of all I'm sorry - I feel partially responsible for how you are doing because I said I'd be there for you and then I didn't really follow up on the PMs... I know we had a few exchanges but if I'd known how low you were I certainly would have written more. You're 4 weeks in, right? I know I've mentioned before how similar our paths have seemed: fallen career, body issues, self esteem and depression challenges. Guess what... when I was 4 weeks in to recovery I ended up in a locked psych ward because I tried to kill myself. You are in the depths of depression, my lady. It's hard to extricate yourself from how you feel long enough to think about this, but trust me, you will feel differently in just 2 weeks from now. Your body and brain is not normal - you are at the lowest point of your recovery, your dopamine and norepenephrine stores are totally depleted and so as others have said, it's your addicted, depleted, pain-filled brain that is screaming for a respite. Now is the most important time NOT to start using again! You have a beautiful brain that really wants to help you. Did you know it's just aching to get back to normal, to start producing all those chemicals and hormones all on its own, without the help of some fucking orange or blue pill? Think of it this way. If you were looking after a sick person, and they were right at the worst of feeling sick, you could see how much they were hurting and suffering and instead of giving them a big hug and making them soup and telling them, rest, it'll be ok, you will get through it... you stuffed them full of Day Quill and told them to get up off their lazy ass and get back to work? You'd never do that to another human being, I know it. So why would you do it to yourself? Please, please I hope this doesn't reach you too late. The moment you take just one pill you will be back to the beginning again, and you've come SO FAR (even though it doesn't feel like it, I know). Please stay close to this site over the next couple of days and let us know how you are doing. Even if you fuck up and go back to the adderall, yes there will be people here who will make you accountable for it, but we are here to support you and we will ALWAYS have your back. Just trust yourself. The successful, happy, real person you thought you once were is there. She just needs a big hug.

Your sleep in the first 2 weeks will be like that of a dead person. In fact they've studied amphetamine addicts during recovery and say they do enter an almost coma-like sleep. So enjoy it, lady, and don't feel like you have to do anything other than get through.

You're so right about the sound they make when they drop to the floor, and the color - I can see it clear as anything in my mind's eye. Ick. Hey well done, you, it feels good doesn't it! Now, where's the PICTURE? C'mon we have a baseline here of documented evidence that now needs to be produced upon discovery... tee her

I found this online in another forum a while ago and recovered it recently. I've put it in the announcements because it feels more like a "sticky" than a discussion doc or question or personal tale. I found it really accurate. Hope it's helpful. Stage 1 of Amphetamine Use - During this stage, amphetamine will be at its hedonic peak; the pleasure of taking amphetamine will not get any higher from this point on. The most notable feelings are a "lovey" feeling, powerful euphoria, increased motivation, deep philosophical thinking, strong feelings of "lust", etc. Length of phase: 1-3 days with binge usage; 5-10 days with daily usage; About 5-15 uses total if used sparingly with atleast several days inbetween doses. Characteristic Effects of this Stage: - Powerful euphoria - Empathy and socialability - Overwhelming amount of increased motivation Stage 2 of Amphetamine Use - During this stage, the "lovey" and empathetic feelings of amphetamine quickly fade, although the "pleasurable" feelings of euphoria and increased motivation are still present. The decrease in empathetic feelings is likely responsible from a depletion of serotonergic vesicles. Most users note that it is impossible to transition back to "Stage 1" at this point, no matter how long of a break a person takes from amphetamine. This suggests that a permanent tolerance develops for the empathetic effects of the drug - whether this occurs from a psychological acclimation to the effects, or from physiological reasons, I don't know. This is the stage which doctors aim for when prescribing amphetamine for medicinal use with ADD and ADHD. This stage can be prolonged for quite some time (and if the dose is low enough, some medical professionals say that this phase can be prolonged indefinitely) this is assuming of course that the user continuously maintains an adequate amount of high quality sleep (7+ hours a night), proper nutrition, and a non-sedentary lifestyle. Length of Stage: 1-7 days with binge usage (note that binge usage is defined by immediately taking another dose once the effects of one dose wear off or begin to wear off, interrupting sleep in the process). 2 Weeks to 6+ Months if used daily (and maintaining a healthy lifestyle). Indefinitely if used sparingly (with 3-5+ days inbetween uses). Characteristic Effects of this Stage: - Increased Motivation - Slight Euphoria Stage 3 of Amphetamine Use, the "Tool" phase - At this point, most if not all empathetic effects of usage have diminished. This point is characterized by the fact that amphetamine becomes the sole motivator for tasks, hence the nickname "The Tool Phase" because amphetamine is now used as a Tool for accomplishment. The negative physiological effects (the "body load") become more prominent. Length of Stage: At this point, it is hard to define the length it will take to transition from one stage to the next. Some users will find that if they take breaks from their usage or just lower their dose, they can go backwards to earlier stages. Some binge users may even rapidly progress through the stages, possibly even skipping to the final ones or developing psychosis. Characteristic Effects of this stage: - Period of 'positive effects' and period of 'negative effects' from taking a dose begin to merge. (usually, if negative effects are present they only follow after the positive effects wear off) - The user needs amphetamine to stay at/above a baseline level of motivation, and when amphetamine is not in effect the user is below a baseline level of motivation. -In order for a task to be done effeciently, the user finds that they need to be on amphetamine. - The level of euphoria decreases to a point where it is no more significant than the level of euphoria which most people get from daily life without amphetamine. Stage 4 of Amphetamine Use, "The Decline" - The efficiency of amphetamine as a "Tool" begins to drop significantly, and this stage is characterized by the "comedown" (the period of negative effects after the drug begins to wear off) becoming much stronger. The "comedown" may even begin to merge in with the period of positive effects. At this point, the body load may begin to become painful. Characteristic Effects of this Stage: - Painful body load (Muscle Pain, High Blood Pressure, Inadequate Circulation, Dehydration, Malnutrition, deterioration of the skin and other tissues, etc). - Depression - Severe Anxiety Stage 5 of Amphetamine Use, The Procrastination - This Stage may or may not be experienced by amphetamine users. In this stage, the positive effects of amphetamine are almost absent if not completely gone, and the "coming up" of a dose of amphetamine is subsequently followed by an immediate barrage of negative effects (both physiological and psychological). The reason this phase is called "The Procrastination" is because the user forgets how unbearable the negative sensations are (due to amphetamine compromising the brain's ability to efficiently make memories, especially goal-orientated memories); by the next day, even though the user may have told himself to not take amphetamine, he takes amphetamine again anyways (due to the brain not being able to make a goal-orientated memory, the brain was unable to produce counter-motivation to stop the user from taking more amphetamine the next day). This might possibly be the most psychologically painful and strenuous phase for the amphetamine user, since he is unable to figure out why he keeps taking amphetamine even though he clearly knows it only causes him pain. Characteristic Effects: - Repeatedly taking amphetamine despite knowledge that it no longer gives the desired effects, and only causes negative effects. Stage 6 of Amphetamine Use, Irritability and Pessimism - This phase is characterized by extreme irritability. The user begins forgetting the drug is responsible for his negative feelings, and begins to blame things in the environment around them instead. The user begins to think that other people are responsible for how poorly he/she feels. The user might show hostility, or social withdrawal. The user also begins to develop an extremely pessimistic attitude towards life. Characteristic Effects of this Stage: - Acute Depression - Severe Anxiety - Irritability, even when the drug is out of the user's system - Psychosis - Inability to Sleep - Severe Restlessness - lack of willpower - Inability to find "the right choice of words" - Obsessive Thinking Stage 7 of Amphetamine use, Nihilism and Dissociation - During this phase, incidences of psychosis begin to emerge (if they haven't already) even if the drug user has been maintaining an adequate amount of sleep. The user usually becomes nihilistic, thinking that nothing in life matters or has meaning. Some users may even become solipsistic, which means they think that they are the only things which are real in the world. Solipsism is often accompanied by paranoia, or thinking that others only have the intention of harming the solipsistic individual. If the user had obtained any philosophical or metacognitive methods of thinking during the earlier stages of amphetamine use, those same metacognitive methods begin to eat away at the person's psyche. They feel as if they are helpless to do anything besides sit back and watch their mind become unravelled. Even if the user realizes that his irritable attitude towards other people isn't how he truly feels, he is unable to manage his irritability (most likely due to a complete diminishment of serotonin, as well as the brain's ability to make memories being compromised). The individual's ego may begin to deconstruct itself, and the user may have a feeling that they completely lack any willpower to do anything. This stage is also accompanied by a large amount of confusion. Characteristic Effects of this stage: - Confusion - Paranoia - Unbearable Depression and Anxiety - Delusions - Increased Incidences of Psychosis - Increasingly Painful Body Load - Lack of willpower - Cognition become confusing and incoherent. Users often claim things like their mind is "too loud", "jumping to false conclusions", or "doesn't make sense" and the user feels helpless to control this. - Panic Attacks become very prominent - Feelings of Deja Vu - If weight loss was experienced in beginning stages, it may come to a hault or even reverse into weight gain - Inability to experience pleasure - Akathisia - Feelings that an individual no longer has "free will" - Difficult to form coherent sentences and speak properly. Similar to "Clanging" or "Word Salad" experienced in schizophrenics. Stage 7b "Letting Go / Giving Up" - This stage is not always experienced, but in some instances after the user has experienced an excruciating and unbearable amount of anxiety and mental stress, he may experience a period of "Letting Go" in which the brain gives up on constructing/maintaining its deluded psychological structures. The negative effects of the drug temporarily fade, and the user has a "moment of peace". This temporary phase usually only lasts several hours (if not less) before the user returns to phase 7. Since the brain during this phase has completely abandoned any attempts to make goal orientated behaviour, the user may find it difficult (or simply not want to) to take care of themselves. However, during this phase, the user will find that they will actually be able to get to sleep, and they should take advantage of this temporary somnia to get sleep. I do not know what neurological mechanisms are responsible for this phase; it is almost as if it is the brain's last resort - to enter a careless and stressless stupor. Perhaps the brain releases endorphins in response to the unbearable anxiety? Characteristic Effects: - Stupor - Irresponsiveness - Carelessness - Ironically, if effects of "word salad" or "clanging" were experienced in stage 7, they are no longer as present in stage 7b. Stage 8, "The Stupor", Brain Damage - In this stage, amphetamine no longer gives effects, and the brain's desire for taking amphetamine (even if taking it has become a habit) begins to drop. As long as amphetamine use continues, the user makes no progress towards recovery of any sort. The individual is unresponsive and disconnected. Amphetamine has a tendency to make the user put too much effort into anything/everything, and this gives the brain not a single moment of psychological "rest" (where the individual doesn't think deeply). However, during this phase, it is quite the opposite - the individual's mind is in a prolonged state of resting and won't even follow through with the very act of thinking if the thought takes too much effort to think. During this phase, the user may have a steep decline in intelligence. Characteristic Effects: - Prolonged episodes of stupor and carelessness - Lethargy - Diminished Intelligence and mental efficiency - Irreversible Psychological Damage - Possible brain damage - The individual may develop a "permanent stuttering" which persists even after amphetamine has long since been ceased. - In a similar way that the stuttering develops, an individual may develop a possible permanent difficulty talking, using correct grammar and sentence structure, or expressing thoughts to others. In severe cases, this may even resemble a schizophrenic's clanging or word salad. - Essentially, the mind at this point is irreversibly compromised. The user's personality might have changed permanently. The individual may be much more easily irritated for the rest of his/her life. Cognitive functioning will never work the same as it used to. Although the user may make improvements and greatly recover, it will almost always seem like something "isn't right" in the mind, or that something is "missing". Individuals will still be able to lead fulfilling lives, and some may make amazing recoveries where they feel normal again like they did before they ever began using. Unfortunately, in severe cases, the individual may never be the same again.

Diversion alert: sky you make me burst out loud at least once a day. Today's gem was the costco-sized-trail-mix reference ... your sense of humor is awesome, and really really appreciated. I tend to get a bit fatalistic about things every now and again but you've usually got some encouraging but witty magic that acts a tonic to my blues. Thanks, dude. Oh, and in my head you always speak like Fred Armisen doing The Californians

"Your stories are my story"... never a truer word said. Welcome to the forum, Lea. You're also right about just focusing on getting through recovery, one minute, second, hour, day at a time. Everything you're doing at the moment is right. Stay strong, vent all you want, cry all you want, sleep all you want, eat all you want. Give yourself a free pass to just get well for a little while. It's the thing I struggled with the most and the one piece of advice that's so common here - we adderallics are overachieving buggers and can't stand the change of pace. But your body is telling you something, so listen to it. Hang in there. Moment by moment!

Your wife is a wise woman, and she has taught you well.

Change happens when the fear of taking a new step is less than the fear of doing what's been familiar. Unfortunately we can't make you call the doc - you have to do it on your own, brave lady...

Yeah, this forum's full of em... cool chicks/moms/executives/academics/librarians/students and some damn fine hotties too, from what I can tell. I have a particularly lovely right shoulder blade as you can tell from my pic. It's my finest feature apart from the little patch of skin below my left ankle, which if I say so myself, is a damn fine patch of skin. Stops traffic, that does. And yes I'm being sarcastic. Right, off to the job quest I go!

What everyone says here is right. GO EASY ON YOURSELF, SearchingSoul. Here's what I did, which I struggle with but does help: I've given myself 90 days to recover, and like Mike says and others have said here, that is my ONE and ONLY goal (oh, and getting a frickin job). The weight stuff, the vanity stuff, the having to look perfect all the time for everyone I have deliberately told myself to ignore. Do I like looking in the mirror? No fuckin way! Do I like not fitting in to my skinny jeans? No, it's gross. But I do happen to know that the more I berrate myself over my body issues, the worse my depression becomes, which will lead to sugar binges, more weight gain, and on and on we go. I've given myself a pass until 90 days off adderall, and then I will work on my next biggest addiction, sugar. One day at a time... one addiction at a time... one forum at a time...

You should be able to tell whether it's XR, IR or SR from the dosage. It is very rare to be prescribed IR, so the dosage usually goes like this: 300 MG XR (extended) 150 MG SR (sustained release) x 2 per day Of course when you're first taking it you have to step up to that amount. I got super dizzy and a bit of virtigo when I first started, which is how I knew it was working I guess.

Rick and Searching Soul, reading your trials with weed made me think of something. I know I recommend books a lot, so forgive me, but I think you both would really love this. Do you know Chuck Klosterman? I think he's one of the smartest writers on pop culture and modern life around ... really a cool, cynical, funny dude. Anyway his latest book, "The Visible Man" has a section in it about a girl who's in her mid 20s, whose life revolves around smoking weed, eating entire tubs of KFC, listening to music, then running excessively and purging for hours, then doing the same thing every single day. I don't know how but he made it sad and hilarious at at the same time. It's amazing how our lives can be seen so differently from the outside... and how our definition of "normal" is just so twisted sometimes when we get caught up in terrible habits. Anyway, here it is... it's a fun read: http://www.amazon.com/Visible-Man-Novel-Chuck-Klosterman/dp/143918447X

it's worth noting the difference between addiction and abuse. Addiction can be characterized as a continued craving for drugs and the need to use these drugs for the psychological effects the drug brings. Abuse is defined as the use of drugs,usually by self administration, outside of what is prescribed to an individual for medical use. You are addicted, but you may not be abusing. You may be mis-using the drugs. Try to get your hands on this book, you might find it really helpful: http://www.amazon.com/Overcoming-Prescription-Drug-Addiction-Understanding/dp/1886039887 Also, I think what you say about your inner life vs outer life is really astute. You think that as far as you can tell, most everything on the outside seems to be relatively ok, but what you're screaming for on the inside is some rest from the addiction that's getting a firmer grip on you every day. I hate to say it, but you're probably wrong... I'm almost positive it's affecting you in your external life, it's just that there's probably been no huge drama about it. But believe me, people will have noticed.... the change in your personality, your withdrawal, your lack of empathy for things and life in general, your pacing, your little obsessions. I remember coming home from a business trip once early on a Saturday morning, and walking in the front door to see my husband crying (I've seen him cry exactly 3 times, and one of those times was the anniversary of 9/11 where he saw people jump out of the building windows, so it was kind of a shock). He told me he felt really, really ALONE. That this life with me is not what he signed up for. That he didn't know who his wife was any more. I remember looking at him with cold eyes and thinking, "why the hell is he crying? what is the matter with him, can't he just get over himself... I'm here now, aren't I... everything will be just fine so long as he doesn't interrupt my crash for the next two days so I can get back on the adderall train for my next business trip on Monday" That's the kind of inner thinking that adderall inspires. It's not right, and it's not me. The good news is that if you haven't been abusing for too long, and you haven't been addicted for too long, your path to recovery shouldn't be as severe as some may have experienced. But you'll never know until you start recovering. What's holding you back? What are you afraid of?

My goodness this forum's been abuzz these last couple of days! The cast of characters at its finest. Sky, I get what you're asking and yes I should do a "tell your story" post. Actually I never really did the whole autobiography thing because I was already 5 weeks in to recovery and honestly the idea of having to structure my thoughts and carve a story was fucking exhausting enough. I came on here to ask two very specific questions - one about short term memory loss (which I've annoyed you with now for over a month!) and one about judgment. I was hooked from the thoughtfulness of everyone's replies right from the start. But I can retroactively piece together all the crap and put it up here, now I have got some semblance of logic and thought progression back again. Expect you'll be bored with that tome very shortly... but hey, you asked for it! As for you neversaynever you're just crazy enough you might even end up writing your own sid-an-nancy style epithet... we will wait in anticipation...

your breaks from adderall unfortunately are not going to be enough to restore your neural pathways sufficiently before you start taking it again, so unfortunately you've built up quite a resistence. It sounds to me like you're always in a slight and perpetual withdrawal, except for the first 90 mins of the day, which was the same for me for about the last 6 months of my addiction. I hope you're able to come to the realization that you will be better off without adderall before it does some serious damage, to your health (maybe it has already? are all your teeth ok? blood pressure? not to mention long term neurotoxicity potential) or your relationships (sounds like your kids have had to put up with a lot) or your safety. We are here for you as you go through the journey. Let us know when day one of your recovery is and we'll be your greatest cheerleading squad! YOU CAN DO IT!

Moderator needed here please

I've been taking wellbutrin for years and I don't usually have a prob with caffeine... but I don't really drink too much coffee anyway - if I drink it after midday it gives me a shocking headache.

Searchingsoul, the beginning of your recovery sounds so similar to my own. I know a lot of folks say they LOSE the ability to concentrate after coming off adderall, but for me, I gained it back again. I'm really proud of you. Getting up and going to work is tough, and you know it will get a little tougher (actually a lot) so hang in there, and take each day as it comes. If you fuck up, we'll forgive you but you have also seen a bright shining example today of what happens when people disrespect their own boundaries and this forum HA! One thing I loved during the early days was getting my sense of humor back. And giving a shit about other people. And actually being able to retain anything in my head. Take a note of these things, they do come back to you over time, those things you dearly loved about yourself that you didn't even know that they made you who you are, and now they are coming back.

Hey Falcon, our friend and supporter, This made me cry. Now that's not what you wanted, is it?! The reason I was crying is because you can't seem to see something really really fundamental, that we see. You are spending so much of your time berrating yourself for the past, being your own torture chamber, but without looking in the mirror TODAY. Don't you see? There are at least 9 or 10 people here who visit this site all the time who have been directly impacted, for the better, by your words and actions. The Falcon that comes here is the one we know and love and I think it's pretty commonly accepted that you're a FUCKIN LEGEND, MATE (in my best Aussie accent)! You always cut to the heart of the issue. You see people's pain, lift them up when they need it and do some straight talking when they need the tough love too. We love you and respect you and admire you, Falcon. Now, to address the sticking point which for you seems to be your reflections on the past. Would it be too much to say maybe you're going through your own version of Post Traumatic Stress? Sure, it might take a different form, but it sounds like reflecting on the past for you is creating your own private hell today. Self sabotage is such a tough thing to navigate when you are depressed, it takes all the strength in the world to look yourself in the mirror and go, "I'm going to be ok... I am ok... all I need is to be the best me for today". If you feel up to it, there's a really great book I'd recommend to you, it's called, "The Power of Now". Sounds totally like mystical bullshit I know (and the tie-died LSD-inspired cover doesn't help.... who THINKS of these things>!) but the book actually does help with reflecting on how to think about bringing peace to where you are right now. http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/1577314808 Also, 3 other quick things: 1) Your houseboat sounds awesome. When I think of you in it, listening to jazz and relaxing, I get this picture like you're the guy from the Dos Equis ad, you know, "the most interesting man in the world" ... all the stories you could tell! 2) Congrats for walking! The first steps is always the hardest. 3) Are you addicted to nicotine? I hope not... did you know there is a positive correlation between nicotine addicts and depression? WE LOVE YOU FALCON. REALLY. hang in there - one day a time, like you always say to us.

Well to get back on topic, it's good you posted and good you had that dream, sounds like the desire to never touch it again has somehow sunk in to your subconscious. I've never once had an adderall dream, maybe I'll have that to look forward to in a few weeks or something. Stay strong!