SleepyStupid

yea, that's a hard "no" on that. good job. that stuff is still speed. i do recognize and appreciate the slippery slope argument in all of this though. i for one take Wellbutrin and love coffee. they're both stimulants in their own way, but i don't feel like they've replaced Adderall in any way.

what prevents me from going back to adderall is knowing that i will never be able to control my usage. i know that for a fact, and it was reinforced a few months ago when i relapsed for a brief period. my usage pattern is simply keep taking pills until my body collapses 5 days later. that is a death sentence waiting to happen. so it's easier for me to demonize adderall. it is not a medication to me- it's a hardcore drug. i use it to get high. triggers are a very subjective thing. they can be concrete things like the sound of a pill bottle shaking, or abstract things like being on a long car ride. the first step is to identify your personal triggers. what is happening around you when you feel an intense but inexplicable desire to use? you'll never be able to entirely avoid triggers, but knowing what they are can reduce their impact on you. it's like how knowing a demon's true name gives you power over it (:

as @OnSomething said, there certainly is something empowering about owning your condition. i think where you need to be careful is letting it define your identity. like those people who advertise their condition on Facebook, it simply becomes who they are. i'm not saying that doesn't work for some people, but i think most people perceive that as attention-seeking. you don't want to be that person. i think in your particular situation, there's a balance that can be had. no one needs to know the whole truth, but if someone asks how you're doing: "i'm doing okay. could be better. i went through some personal shit last year so still recovering from that." most people will respect your privacy when you phrase it like that, and won't probe any deeper, but your response is honest and universal enough that anyone can relate to "going through shit". at the risk of sounding facetious, being mysterious and damaged is attractive in it's own way, isn't it? (:

you know, this is a very interesting point. maybe the key here is simply immersing yourself in something new. something that you can't compare to how it felt on adderall, or even before adderall. we did something quite extreme to ourselves, maybe we need something extreme to come back from it (:

@SeanW that's 4 more songs than i wrote after adderall lol. how did you feel about those songs? did they come easily or was it a struggle? i was thinking also to use open mics as a way to force myself to practice again. as in, making a commitment to something, but even getting to the point of feeling confident enough to do an open mic now seems daunting. its not so much that i don't think i can do it again. i think i'm more than capable. what i'm scared of is trying and realizing that i don't really enjoy it anymore. @EricP i understand what you mean. there's an element of "reaching beyond" that just seems to be missing now. i'm curious though how you feel about activities that are naturally enjoyable? after all, most people don't enjoy chores. i forgot where i read this, but they defined "thriving" as a combination of 3 things: growth, success and opportunity. i think you could argue that growth begets success, and success begets opportunity. so maybe what we're ultimately feeling is a resistance to growth? i know i am, because there are professional certifications and things that i know would automatically lead to success and opportunity, but i feel like the only thing on my mind at the end of the work day is escaping the real-world for as long as i can until the next morning.

you mention that the people close to you comment on your negativity, but do you personally feel more negative? i think personally, i am definitely more negative, but it's hard to attribute it directly to adderall because the comparison to "before adderall" is a comparison to a much younger me. everyone grows up and gets jaded. in regards to external presentation, this might just be a comparison they are making between the adderall you and the current you. it's no secret that adderall makes you a more lively, often positive, person.. but what they don't see is the misery we suffer as a result of that. i'm not sure there's a way to not be negative, at least in early recovery.

i recognize that "mediocrity" is a very subjective and also relative term, but i've been thinking a lot about happiness and what are the things i truly value in life. when i put those thoughts through a lens of brutal honesty, it reveals that i'm okay with not being very ambitious. i have a good, stable job.. it's not a great job though. i definitely could be doing more, making more money, but that all comes with a specific type of effort.. one that seems to come naturally to some people, because they actually enjoy busting their ass and thriving? i just don't seem to have that, and it makes me wonder whether i value success any more? as another example, when i think about my creative pursuits, the internal conversation goes something like this: "i don't feel like practicing piano everyday to regain my skill, it seems like a chore. even if i exercise some discipline to get my chops back, so what? i have no ambition to become a performer again, so i'd have to be satisfied with simply doing it for myself. but myself can be satisfied in much easier ways, why bother putting in that effort?" part of me wonders if maybe those things are only exciting when you're young because it's how you define yourself. sure- you're a student technically, but you identify as an "athlete" or a "musician" or a "writer". but as you grow older, that identity fades. you're no longer a "musician". you're an "accountant" or "computer programmer". i guess what i'm struggling with is convincing myself that reinvesting time into those hobbies would actually improve my quality of life. to be clear, i'm not unhappy about not enjoying those things anymore- but there's this nagging feeling that i should be unhappy about it. i'm hesitant to attribute this to my past adderall abuse, but i guess it can't be entirely ruled out. just needed to get this out there, and see if maybe anyone had any nuggets of wisdom to share (:

as someone that is still on Wellbutrin for depression, i can say that it works for me in that capacity. it's hard to say how much it will help in early recovery, but it sounds like you already know how shitty this is going to be if you've quit before. for what it's worth, the quit attempt that ended up sticking for me was the one where i was taking a low - moderate dose of Wellbutrin. i know you're pattern of abuse very well. if you don't stop now, here's what's going to happen: the 3 days a week abuse is going to progress into a long, never-ending binge. the alcohol and benzo cocktail that you're taking to enhance/mitigate the adderall will end up becoming a much more serious problem than the adderall alone. at some point in this mess, you will very likely get fired. it's not an if, it's a when. when that happens, the abuse will spiral out of control and you will bottom out or die as a result of it. none of this should sound surprising. you seem like a smart guy, so if you accept that the above is a very real possibility, then the choice is already made. the next thing is a plan- it is far better to take a medical leave of absence than to get fired. do you have good insurance? go take advantage of that, find a in-patient rehab program. if it was just the adderall, i'd say its possible to do this without professional help, but with the downers in the mix, that could be dangerous. gl and keep us posted!

that was a very courageous thing you did, flagging yourself for abuse. you did the thing that many of us (even I) were too scared to do. if you can do this, then you can absolutely turn your life around. definitely keep checking in here. i know its especially difficult in the beginning- you barely have the motivation to get out of bed much less track your progress on a site, but it absolutely helps. it's a constant reminder of the pain adderall brings, but also for the sense of community- because you are not alone. what are your plans for the next few months? do you have a place to stay and just focus on recovery?

this is great news, congrats! (: and you said it yourself- you just have to keep reminding yourself why you stopped in the first place. being adderalled is NOT a sustainable state, especially if you're abusing it (and arguably even if you genuinely need it). what no one tells you when you first start taking adderall for that competitive edge is that once you know that feeling, you will never un-know it. that is the real risk of adderall dependency and addiction, particularly for people with "demanding" careers. eventually this recovery period will pass, and you will be on the other side. you will likely still have friends that use, or notice people around you using, but you'll know the thing that they don't know about it. you no longer need that crutch!

lol i remember the car nap period quite well. no shame in this. i'd say that for the first couple of weeks, just let your body do the deciding. if you feel tired, then sleep. if you want to car nap, do it. it will take a little while for your sleep cycle to normalize, but it does happen fairly quickly, so you won't feel THIS tired for long. as @EricP said, insomnia is an issue that may replace the excessive sleeping after a period of time. that period lasted a few months for me, but wasn't too debilitating.

hi OnSomething, welcome to the forums! thank you for sharing- whether our stories are similar or not, we all have a shared experience here which is what allows us to support one another. your usage in the end was very similar to mine. finish my script in a week or so, get some from my addy buddy, buy some on the side.. anything to get through the rest of the month till the next re-fill. i also didn't blame the drug for a long time. i rationalized that the pill itself was the only thing left that could make my dreams come true, that I was the problem for not being able to control myself and use it for "good". i think that was around the point that i gave up all hope of succeeding, i just accepted that i was a loser and used adderall to just get high and make myself feel better about my shitty life. it sounds like you're finally in the right mindset. it becomes so emotionally draining to "manage" your demeanor, interact "normally" with people while riding the roller-coaster and chasing a high. one of the best things (if not the best) about ridding your life of stimulants, as simple as it sounds, is not having to worry about how you're going to feel from one moment to the next. there will definitely be a period of re-learning, but your empathy will return quite naturally. it is the other part of re-learning, the productivity side, that is the most difficult part of recovery. you need to re-learn how to put effort before reward. if you're still in school, this is absolutely the best chance you'll get to quit. there are many campus resources you can turn to for help, and professors can be surprisingly supportive and accommodating if you need the extra time. the important thing here is to have a plan, and keep us updated on your progress (:

while I agree with @Frank B , i definitely understand the difficulty of handling friends. my best friend was also my addy buddy, and unfortunately he went down a much darker path than I- cocaine, booze, gambling etc. he was the kind of friend that you'd get phone calls in the middle of the night from bail bondsman or seedy sounding same-day loan officers. i don't know how much of an enabler this makes me, but when he asked for money or needed something i just couldn't say no. thankfully he lives all the way across the country, so i didn't have too much direct contact with him during my early recovery, but if he was around here it would have been very difficult for me. that being said, he ended up in in-patient rehab for half a year, and seemingly has his life on track now- no thanks to me though. i wonder sometimes, could i have been "better" friend? instead of enabling it, could i have gotten him help sooner? it sounds like such an easy answer, but it never is with people that close to you.

this got me enthused (:

enthusiasm (need more)

i got around to watching this yesterday (snow day!).. it is definitely triggering so for those of you susceptible to this, be careful. that being said... i thought it did a pretty good job of documenting the history of amphetamines and our society's growing obsession with productivity and speed. unfortunately it did an even BETTER job of glamorizing adderall. almost every story featured a proud, affluent, successful user. none of them were particularly concerned as to whether they actually had ADD or not- it's either a tool that everyone around you is using or the ends (success) justify the means. this is definitely a polarizing film, but i understand why they chose not to speak about the abuse and addiction potential. this documentary isn't about the drug itself, it's about how our society got to this stage. it's the same reason why they chose not to highlight the benefits for "true ADHDers", it simply doesn't help their narrative. there is not a single mention of the long term risk of dependency, there's maybe one passing story about a Wall Street yuppie that took too much and ended up in the hospital. we all know that's not the real danger of this drug. TLDR. the take away message of this documentary seems to be: our society (for better or worse) values productivity. adderall makes you (or your child) effortlessly productive. everyone around you is using it to enhance their performance.

well said! the things in life i love? eating and sleeping

@EricP my only experience with acetylcholine was while experimenting with nootropics and piracetam. my understanding is that taking a racetam without a ACh supplement can cause headaches and other issues, possibly because the racetam requires more of it to work effectively? not sure how ACh supplements would work outside of this context.

i'm horrified at myself sometimes, thinking back how reckless a driver i was on adderall- i was on my phone 90% of the time while driving, and not just "texting". doing shit like rearranging playlists, downloading stuff.. it's a miracle i never killed someone or myself. i did get pulled over once for swerving, dead of the night on a turnpike. i must have been tweaked out of my mind (as usual), but the officer simply accepted my "just tired" explanation. maybe if that had gone another way, i might have been off this shit far sooner.

yea, we all think we're better at hiding it than we think are. also the thing with hiding / lying is that it brings with it a ton of guilt. i remember getting fired from a job after months of absolutely unacceptable behavior. that day should have been terrible, and it was, but at the same time it was a HUGE relief, not having to carry around the guilt of getting paid to deliver basically nothing. i'm assuming that the withdrawal symptoms you're talking about are the very acute kind, because you haven't made it past day 3 before. unfortunately, there really isn't anything that's going to make the first week suck less. probably just laying around, watching netflix and eating whatever you want! no supplement is going to help in this time period. wellbutrin does help for sure, but you'd have to discuss this with your doctor.

totally this. i was so tweaked out at work, people just ended up accepting that's how i am. i even got the nickname TRON at work, cause i'd change conversation topics so abruptly. . proud of you for coming clean to your boss. that's a REALLY tough conversation to have, but it shows that you're committed to fixing your life. i'm assuming that you've already started your leave from work? if you're staying with your friend for a while, and you're not working, i would strongly suggest to go cold turkey or a very aggressive taper schedule. as @Frank B said, you need to get to 0mg as soon as possible, so that you can make the best use of the time you have off... best use being doing nothing and just healing (:

discouraged.

yea, pretty much this. for all intents and purposes, being "healed" and feeling "healed" are the same thing. you will never know objectively that you are healed, that your neurotransmitters are finally at your personal "normal" levels, whatever they are. so given that, we have to measure "healing" indirectly through good days, and bad days. when you start having more good days than bad days, it seems reasonable to say you are "healed". bad days will never go away though. everyone has bad days, but most people don't worry whether it's because their brain chemicals are still out of whack- that's a personal hell reserved just for us but that's all it is. worrying, anxiety, doubt.. the way to let go of all that is simply believe you are healed, and deal with the remaining bad like normal people: change careers, get in shape, take up a new hobby, find a new love (:

isn't this what most of television is? lol. unfortunately, you can't blame the media DIRECTLY, in the same way you can't blame doctors DIRECTLY for their practices- it's simply capitalism. all these things are a business, and the way they make the most money is to pander and prescribe.. because that's what people want. that's not to say it's ethical by any means, but to be fair there are also cases where its pure greed. like the stuff in this article probably crosses a pretty black and white line:https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/11/health/prescription-opioid-payments-eprise/index.html right now everyone is concerned about the opioid epidemic. i can almost imagine a time ten years out where we cite this Netflix documentary as the catalyst of a new epidemic.

hi Catherine, 11 years is a long time, but i'm glad that you've recognized that enough is enough. "do i want to live the rest of my life on speed?" is essentially the question everyone needs ask themselves. so how do you quit once and for all? 1) cut off your supply. tell your doctor honestly about your decision to quit, and don't make it sound like the drug just isn't working any more. unfortunately, the response most doctors have is to simply up the dose or move you to another pill, and when you're sitting in that room it's mighty tempting to simply comply. you need to tell him / her that getting off stimulants is a lifestyle choice you've made. also be honest about your concern during tapering. they will probably still put you on a taper plan, but should severely restrict the quantity and dosage. if you go the taper route, also consider doing weekly prescriptions rather than monthly. 2) figure out a strategy for work. some people have the luxury of taking paid time off, but there's also FMLA for unpaid time (enough time for rehab if necessary). ideally, you'll want to take a week off initially to get through the really acute withdrawal phase. how much time off you need after that really depends on the person and your life circumstances. 3) stay active on the forums (: that's basically it from a logistics standpoint. the rest of it is honestly the strength of your conviction. why do you want to quit? how badly do you want to quit? how much harm is adderall causing you? where do you see yourself in 5 years if you continue to take adderall? gl and keep us posted!