SleepyStupid

i'm really sorry to hear about your dad's behavior in all of this- that sounds like a terrible situation, and i agree that you need some space. but at the same time, living in your car doesn't sound like the right kind of space, and if you can't afford anywhere else, you may have to work towards improving the relationship. i don't recognize suicide as an option- what you need is time right now. time for your brain to adjust, time to sort things out in your life. being dead is the opposite of having time. so instead let's think about some things you can do to improve your situation: is he aware that your depression is actually a result of adderall withdrawal? is he educated on PAWS, and what a typical recovery period would be like? more than anything else, it sounds like he's frustrated with not knowing how to help you. have you two visited a doctor or therapist together? maybe he needs to hear from a professional that the depression is not in your control, nor his. failing that, if he's not willing to understand, then it sounds like you need to cut ties, as painful and terrible as that sounds. maybe a deal: give you a few more months at home, then you're out of the house no matter what happens? again, all you need is TIME right now. just remember, no matter how shitty your Dad or anyone else is to you, you have a family here on this board that totally gets it. (:

too long lol. i don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this, but when you say "go right back into your life", it's not that easy. your life on adderall was probably way different than it will be going forward (hopefully!). everyone needs recovery time obviously, but when you see people here saying "be kind to yourself", it kinda means be as lazy as you want.. but it's more about how you cope with returning to "life" things. understand that your performance in many things will suck for a while, so don't beat yourself up over it- be kind to yourself. that being said, having a life / job to go back to has been so crucial in my recovery. if i didn't have to hold down a job, i wouldn't have made it through.. but the key thing was always to be kind to myself, don't push myself too hard, just do what is sufficient until you have the energy to do more (:

i've thankfully never had full blown psychosis, but i've had plenty of panic attacks. one of the craziest ones had to do with disposing of a dead rat in my kitchen. it had gotten caught on a glue trap and died, but it was under the stove and i didn't notice until the kitchen started smelling kind of...funny. so when i pulled the trap out from under the stove, i went into a full blown panic attack just seeing the decomposing rat. now surely, a normal person may have the same type of reaction.. perhaps called someone else to take care of it.. but I was alone, desperate to get rid of it.. and more importantly convinced that i could invent something out of household objects to do this deed without actually having to see or smell the thing. i spent the next 5 hours or so hyperventilating, inventing increasingly ridiculous solutions: taping garbage bags to broom handles, gluing cardboard to sunglasses, tying a scarf around my face. GOD what i'd give to have a video of that night it was probably something like: i think eventually i gave up out of exhaustion. by this point i had been awake for about 72 hours. i caught my landlord leaving for work that morning and had him handle it- thankfully, he was actually a frat brother of mine, and just called me a pussy and took care of it lol.

drained..

^ this. well said @Subtracterall i think we'd all agree that adderall is more pervasive in our society than people think. you're definitely going to encounter it out in the wild, and i think a great way of coping with it is reminding yourself that you know A LOT MORE about it than they do. it's like you know a secret that they don't- enjoy it while you can, you have no idea what you're in for. (:

like @Frank B said, that type of arrangement is not sustainable, and honestly sounds exactly like what an addict would scheme up in order to continue using. i know because i had those same thoughts at some point. if only i could externally control my useage. the answer is that you simply cant. there's nothing stopping you from just taking more out of that bottle when you have access to it. i don't know what your level of tolerance is now, but from my experience with a recent relapse, you will very quickly get yourself back to that level where you finish your script in a week or two. i also don't know what your personal life circumstances are.. but they kind of don't matter. what this comes down to is do you want to live the rest of your life on speed? just think about that question. if the answer is "yes", then there's nothing any of us can say to help. i suspect the answer is "no", otherwise you wouldn't be here. there will never be "the right time" to quit. the only rule here is "the sooner the better".

yea, this is really the crux of it. it's the acceptance that it will never be different. your useage is very similar to mine- once you binge you can never go back. it doesn't matter what you believe before you start- it's like Jekyll and Hyde, or Banner and the Hulk.. the moment you get high, you become a different person. that person has a COMPLETELY different agenda than the sober you. he's not out to help you- he just wants to stay alive as long as possible, so he just pop pills for several days straight. sober you needs to realize how dangerous this type of use is, and know that you will never be able to return to a therapeutic dose.

i love that you consider the possibility that maybe you actually did lol, because my most layered experience had me CONVINCED that i had been visited by the ghost of my gf's dead mother. so her mother had actually committed suicide a few months prior, and one of the first times i stayed overnight at her house, she made me sleep on the side of the bed closer to the door. so i asked why, and she said it's cause for the last couple of months, she's always felt the presence of her mom standing the doorway- like, watching over her i guess, but it creeped her out. so of course i'm like whatever, i'll sleep on that side... the first false awakening happens. i'm sleep paralyzed, in her room, can't turn my head or move or anything... but out of the corner of my eye... i see something standing near the doorway. i start FREAKING out, but cause your paralyzed, you can't do SHIT. i can't even turn to see it, or turn away or ANYTHING.. then i wake up. it's the middle of the night, she's sleeping, and of course, there is nothing in the doorway. i calm myself down, and go back to sleep... i wake up again, paralyzed. this time... it's closer and i can tell it is a woman. i start having a panic attack, can't move at all, so i'm just breathing really hard and fast, hoping that it wakes up my gf who's sleep beside me. i wake up again, drenched in sweat, still breathing really hard. its still the middle of the night, she's sleeping, and there is of course no one else in the room. at this point, i know it's a nightmare, but it felt SO REAL. i had never experienced anything like this before. i literally did not want to go back to sleep, but of course it happens eventually... this time, i wake up. again. paralyzed. and the woman is kneeling, right next to me, POKING ME, jamming her fingers into my arm. i totally lose my mind with fear. all of a sudden i wake up, and now it's morning, and my gf is kind of hovering over me with a concerned look on her face. she tells me i was breathing really hard and fast and had to shake me awake. soooo, power of suggestion? or really visited by her dead mom? the deeper question here is, is there really a difference? that shit felt as real as being totally awake. for that matter, if there is an afterlife, who's to say they can't communicate through dreams? lol the next year of my life was spent studying and understanding lucid dreams, and sleep disorders and the supernatural. (:

this is a really interesting topic. @SeanW have the nightmares subsided? adderall surely does a lot of fucked up things to your mind, so wouldn't surprise me in the least that it could result in nightmares during recovery. before adderall, i used to be a very vivid dreamer, plenty of false awakenings and sleep paralysis episodes, also messed around with lucid dreaming for a while. my personal experience has been that when you are sleeping in a new environment, at a different time than usual, or in a different position than usual, nightmares are more likely to occur. as an example, very early in almost every one of my relationships, i would have one of those night terrors of sleep paralysis, false awakening, falling back asleep right back into sleep paralysis... and i've always attributed it to the change in sleep position- usually i sleep on my side, but when i'm sleeping next to my gf at her place, i'm usually on my back. lol it sounds like one of those things in the movies, but i've had multiple gf's have to shake me awake from the nightmare (because you're trapped inside it from the sleep paralysis).

that's awesome to hear! (: i guess the best way to put it is that being "normal" means that reward comes after effort.. whereas with adderall it's the exact opposite. the reward is just flooded into your brain, regardless of whether you've put in the effort or not. after a long enough time, you've literally trained yourself to only put in effort if you already feel reward.

yea that must be really frustrating- especially because if they know about your addiction, they're probably thinking "that'll never happen to me, he's just weak". unfortunately my girlfriend takes adderall too, but i don't think she's taking it on a daily basis, just on as needed basis. it still bothers me, but eventually i'm going to voice that opinion a lot stronger.

hi Ms. Hadderall, welcome to the forums! i'm sorry to hear about your situation- being a single mom must be tough enough without the additional difficulties you've had all your life. none of us here are healthcare professionals, so we really can't say what would be best for you.. however, you have some symptoms there that sound like a bad reaction to adderall. it certainly sounds like medication could help your condition, but there are a lot of options other than adderall to treat ADHD. perhaps you should discuss these options with your doctor. (i'm actually surprised he didn't take you off it the moment you mentioned voices).

about 6, 3 of which was really heavy abuse and binge use. :/

inquisitive!

yea, that's about what i expected. im kinda curious how they would have arrived at a normal baseline for these chemicals if the method they're using is inaccurate to begin with. could be one of those things where everyone has a low something level and the confirmation bias kicks in, "that's the reason i'm so something!"

i had this same feeling around the 2 year mark, and it led to me relapsing for a month or so. honestly, its hard to me to say what i'd be feeling like now if I hadn't started back on Wellbutrin.. but for better or worse, i don't blame adderall for it anymore. i think "normal" people struggle with feeling low from time to time, but the difference with us is that we're constantly wondering whether it's cause we're still in recovery, whether we've permanently damaged ourselves, etc. i think that mentality amplifies these lows and makes it harder to deal with. unfortunately there is no way to actually measure the levels of dopamine in our brains, or measure the sensitivity of our receptors.. but i think the reason the medical community says our withdrawals should only last a few months is because based on everything they know about the science of our brains, those chemicals SHOULD re-balance themselves fairly quickly. if that's actually true, does it mean it PAWS is "all in our head's?" (i appreciate the irony here lol) EDIT: actually after googling my statement above, it turns out you CAN test neurotransmitter levels, BUT i'm not entirely sold on this yet. https://www.integrativepsychiatry.net/neurotransmitter_testing_what_can_it_do_for_you.html

first of all, welcome to the forums. you are among those who truly get it. (: we can all definitely relate to the situation of feeling "trapped" into an adderall addiction. you want to quit, but feel like if you do, your life is going to fall apart, you'll lose your job, get kicked out of school etc. here's the thing though- there will never be a "perfect" time to quit. unfortunately, there is no magic supplement or replacement that will eliminate the recovery period. if you can, take some time off of work (i mean like at least a week), and just go cold turkey with it. very few people have success tapering down, and you said it yourself: you've tried 35 times already, and it hasn't worked. if you keep that stuff around, the moment you feel pressured at work, you will relapse. if you really like your job, you need to make a plan for how you will get through the first couple of months at a severe handicap. it is not going to be easy. you will effectively need to drag yourself through the day, doing the bare minimum. you may be surprised that just doing enough is fine... one of the nasty things that adderall does is convinces you that if you slow down for a moment, everything will topple. it makes you take more and more responsibility until you're in a place where you're juggling 19 things, and probably not doing any of them as well as you think you are. make sure that those tasks that directly affect others (payroll!) are your top priority, then, make sure you plan out projects and deadlines so you have way more time than you need to do them. it's kind of silly sounding advice, but it's what you'll need to do if you want to make it through this without quitting or taking a medical leave of absence (which if you can, you should absolutely do!)

to be fair i think the problem is on both sides. we as patients are also abusing the system too, no? when i got my adderall prescription, it was way too easy, but at the time that's what i wanted it to be. i was scamming the system and i knew it, and appreciated how easy it was. while doctors are supposed to "do no harm", there is no accurate "test" for adult ADD. so in lieu of that, what are they supposed to do? just assume everyone is a junkie? if they turn you away, you're probably just going to go to their competition. healthcare is a business just like any other. also, they will never be able to tell when a patient is getting addicted unless the patient wants them to know that. its as simple as that. it's really a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for them.

welcome and congrats on finally kicking this thing to the curb (: it is awesome that you decided to quit now while you're still young. IMO, the biggest problem with adderalling as a young adult is that it masks all the necessary difficulties and challenges you need to overcome in order to become a functioning adult. managing your finances.. developing work ethic.. planning for the future.. these are all things adderall can distract you from. once you quit, its hard enough to bring yourself back to a state of "normal", but if you never developed the skills to be independent, it will be twice as hard. it will definitely be brutal- it is a fight for your life.. but it does get better! yea- this part is tough. everyone misses looking great with no effort.. but as @Frank B said, it's definitely possible. imagine how much better having a six pack will feel knowing that the effort was ALL YOU? regarding performance in sports and hobbies, this may sound cliche, but it's probably more important to simply *enjoy* those things right now. if you don't enjoy doing it without meeting your expectations of performance, it's probably not worth doing (at least for now). especially while you're in your early recovery, it really helps to find things you enjoy doing, because they will distract you from thinking about recovery. that could be as simple as reading, watching TV, playing videogames, etc. no one would ever stop anything if there wasn't a reason to do so lol. and there's your reason right there: tolerance and dependence. i think there's this crucial point turning point for most people when they realize that simply taking more than prescribed can make the high come back.. for a while. from there it just continues till you realize your finishing your scripts weeks before your supposed to. we all know what that leads to.

Dopamine system: BPC 157 significantly reduces the motor abnormalities & hyperactivity, which is induced by dopaminergic neurotoxin MPTP. It also decreases the behavioral disturbances that are basically chronic amphetamine-induced.. lol ditto. but curious either way, looked into some of the studies (on rats). what it sounds like from the actual study is "behavioral disturbances" also means tolerance. so evidently, this "supplement" has the potential to reverse amphetamine tolerance. however seems like it's main useage is: BPC 157 will heal your body like Wolverine -Full Review-

hmm- when you say that you are sleeping too deeply, what is it that you mean exactly? is it that you have difficulty waking up in the morning? (alarm goes off but you sleep through it) do you feel more groggy than you think you should? these problems are not so much caused by having "too much" deep sleep, but actually that you are waking up in the middle of a deep sleep cycle. could be a circadian rhythm issue, which the supplement melatonin helps regulate. *also, there are many things and behaviors that can lead to poor sleep hygiene that we don't realize- and this in turn can result in feeling unrested even after a normal amount of sleep. (my sister is a sleep therapist lol)

i've had these types of experiences on mushrooms- it can be very profound and enlightening.. IF you're around the right people or by yourself (: again, under the right conditions, i do believe that tripping is an experience that is worth trying at least once in your life. it has the potential to change your entire world view in a very meaningful way if you approach it with an open mind and don't disrespect the substance (don't overdo it!)

i can confidently say that smoking weed has never triggered my dopamine reward system in a way that motivates me to do any sort of work .. though it doesn't surprise me that THC affects dopamine. it is after all a "feel good" chemical. these days i find myself vaping maybe once a week if that, though i've definitely been a chronic smoker in the past. from personal experience, i would say that the bigger concern with marijuana is that it can very quickly becoming a numbing agent. it DEFINITELY won't help with being productive, but in the case of anhedonia, getting high can make you content with doing nothing in your free time. on the flip side, some strains can produce a high level of anxiety, especially when you're in a tough place in life. you'll get fixated on your condition and problems- it can be a very emotional and troubling experience. i think some people are more sensitive to this effect than others..

as i'm sure you know, headaches can be caused by way too many things for us non-doctors to diagnose accurately lol.. but my hunch is that it is not related to recovery, especially since you've been clean for a substantial amount of time now. FWIW, headaches for me are always caused by dehydration and changes in diet.

hungry (on a diet)