SleepyStupid

hi @Ame, you're not alone - there are many forum members here that are going through the exact same thing. his behavior is almost text book based on the stories shared here, though it seems that he's not too far gone for you to save your marriage! Adderall can definitely morph your personality. depending on what's going on in a person's life at that point, it can feel like the miracle they have waited for all their life, to open doors to success, confidence, happiness, etc. some of the things Adderall does that could explain your husband's behavior: - it chemically fulfills the emotional needs and validation you would generally get from a partner or spouse (i.e, the user feels validated, secure, confident, etc. without the need for interaction) - it lowers the threshold for decision making - decisions are made impulsively, and because of the point above, every decision made feels right (no matter the consequences) - it can certainly improve your performance at work (at least for a time), which can lead to dependency (i.e, i'll lose my career if i stop) i'm glad to hear that he's weaning off! the wavering and confusion you're seeing now is a good sign. when you come off Adderall, there is certainly a period of depression and confusion as you start questioning your past behavior on it. i would encourage him to visit the forum here and read some of these stories!

hi Onedayatatime, unfortunately, tapering is one of those things that requires a lot of trial and error. there is no formula for success, it has more to do with your personal goals for this process. is your goal to ride out your recovery with the bare minimum side-effects? then yes - based on your historic usage (60mg ~10 years) you're tapering too fast. it can take years to taper down, and its an entirely subjective experience. but is that really what you want? to be on Adderall for another 2 years? if your goal is to quit as soon as possible but need to at least remain functional, your current taper schedule seems reasonable. if you were still functional after halving your dose to 30mg, then that's fantastic progress! another thing to consider is that you're currently on instant release. if 20mg IR is where you lose functionality, maybe consider switching to 30mg extended release? or even an equivalent dose of Vyvanse? i understand your doctor may not have the experience to taper you properly, but you should really discuss this with him/her and try a move over to XR formulation for a couple of months. gl and keep us posted! (:

wow, the "bad habits" girl video was heart breaking - that's how my life has been for a very long time (still is to a degree). "is ADD real?" - i believe it is, though alarmingly over diagnosed... if ADD is NOT real, then we are simply molding ourselves (or worse our children) with chemicals to be more "normal". if ADD IS real, then don't we (or our children) deserve a chance to be "normal"? but a better question might be "what does it mean to be fixed?" are we trying to fix our success at life or our quality of life? what is the benchmark for "normal"? is it a salary? no it can't be! you'd have to be a monster to drug your kids for that reason ... so we have to believe that it is in the best interest for their long-term "happiness". following that line of logic, an appropriate analogy seems be "attractiveness". it's no secret that physical attractiveness impacts the quality of one's life (perhaps success too). some people are more naturally attractive than others - but if you work really hard you can still achieve some level of attractiveness. "is being ugly real?" - probably. kind of depends on how we benchmark beauty in our society. wouldn't cosmetic surgery and/or procedures be in the best interest for one's long-term "happiness"? so why aren't we running around turning our kids into Barbie dolls? you could perhaps make the argument that its more expensive (you'd be right).. but i don't think its just that. as fucked up as it sounds, drugging your kids has the added benefit of making your life easier, doesn't it? i'm not a parent, so my position is admittedly one-sided, but i certainly acknowledge the difficulty in all of this. if you're led to believe that success = happiness... Wouldn't you do anything in your power to give your child the chance to succeed?

^ this this this!!! it's crazy how powerful that realization is. you recognize Adderall for what it is. some people escape or numb themselves with alcohol, marijuana, opiates.. for us it's stimulants. congrats on 9 months, this is huge (:

hi @flywithme , welcome to the forums. that superhero feeling is what led all of us here, so you're in the right place. you should be super proud of yourself for cutting off your supply already - this is one of the hardest parts of quitting! what usually matters more than the dosage itself is the frequency and duration of use. daily usage of 20mg over a 3 year period is a fairly long time. obviously everyone's chemistry is different, but the worst of the lethargy should pass in the first few months. the apathy and anhedonia are the biggest challenges and can last for a couple of years. but it won't be constant or severe the entire time though. in the beginning there will be more bad days than good. in time, there will be more good days than bad. many doctors don't seem to understand (or even acknowledge) the long-term withdrawal symptoms associated with stopping amphetamines. you should be careful with the anti-depressants, especially SSRIs which can cause side-effects way worse than just feeling tired and cranky. the only anti-depressant that has been tolerable and helpful to me has been a low dose of Wellbutrin. congrats on day 3! keep us posted, we're here to help (:

don't worry about the psychosis - if you haven't already experienced it and you're already tapering and cutting back, you're in good shape. and whatever you're feeling is not permanent! it really takes an extraordinary amount of amphetamine over a long enough time to be neurotoxic enough for that scenario. the losing words and difficulty constructing sentences is a well documented effect of abuse and also early recovery - it does go away! (:

you know what's worse? reading your Xanga blog entries from 15 years ago lol. SO CRINGY i guess the simple answer is that we're social animals. but i think that those people that post incessantly on social media do so because they don't think highly enough of themselves. it's the whole external vs internal validation thing - it's so much harder to love yourself than to post fake ass shit to get a bunch of likes. can't say that i love myself just yet.. but social media certainly isn't the answer for me!

hi @Nthomson many people recover from amphetamines while holding down a full-time job. of course, if you have the luxury of taking a week off or so, it will definitely help. the more important thing is to have a plan. you're obviously not going to be delivering at the rate you were before, so a part of your plan should be how to manage your boss's expectations of you. if you feel secure enough, you may even consider having a conversation with him/her to explain that you're going through some stuff and if it seems like you're lower energy, that's why. many managers value honesty in these situations - i'd rather know about it up-front so deadlines / workloads can be adjusted accordingly. another thing you may discover once you stop speeding is that perhaps your job/life was artificially fast paced. of course NYC is notorious for high stress / high reward culture, but adderall is absolutely inflating this condition. the thing is, everything is so enjoyable on speed that you may spend 30 minutes on an email when all the task required was 5. its really hard to see these things until you stop the drugs. for the first few months into recovery, you need to get a feel for a task's bare minimum effort requirement, but also the effort required to not set off any alarms with your boss (hence the expectation management above). there's no silver bullet or easy answer to this. like @Frank B said, the speed is going to stop working at some point. might not be for another couple of years, but it's a biological certainty. the longer you take it, the harder it will be to get clean. you need to make a choice NOW.

never confused. every decision you make on adderall is the best decision you've ever made! one thing amphetamine does too well is eliminates indecision anxiety. this leads to tons of bad choices that feel great no matter the consequences. these decisions may appear confusing to others, but internally there is no confusion. you can become obsessed with almost anything honestly. i started abusing right around the time i got my first smartphone.. long story short, i spent thousands of dollars buying smart home gadgets and trying to link my phone to anything i could find. i was obsessed with automating EVERYTHING. i've never experienced the paranoia that many here report, but it seems like a very common experience. i've certainly had my share of anxiety attacks as well, mostly around work deadlines and stuff that i was missing constantly. mostly marijuana daily. tons of caffeine, smoked like a chimney.. didn't drink daily, but when i did it was a truly unbelievable amount. yes. when my binge cycles got to about 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. those 2 weeks off i would gorge, then starve the 2 weeks on but ate tons of sugar.

depressed (and don't know why).

for serious? or is this an exaggeration lol, cause i feel like i'm right there and being able to run 10k seems like a fantasy! i quit smoking about a year ago, so i feel better about that, but the biggest problem i have is severe shin-splits, which i understand is fairly common for new runners. i was thinking maybe it's the shoes? (i have a pretty shitty pair of sneakers, not designed for running). i am running outside on uneven ground, pavement, etc. i understand a treadmill or something would be easier, but don't have the room for one and i like being outdoors. any suggestions?

cry a little, if you want to. no one's watching. there's that yellow smile (:

this is a very powerful perspective. it's actually an exercise typically conducted in rehab. they tell you to write down all the terrible things you've done to people (or in general), but without context or trying to justify it. "i cheated on my wife" vs "i cheated on my wife.. because i felt etc etc". when you step back and look at this list from a sober lens, it's pretty shocking. congrats on 8 days man, that's awesome! i hope that you're able to save your marriage, but ultimately quitting is for you (:

no, not square one, but your addiction counselor is right regarding the pathways. something i truly believe about substance abuse in general is that once you know the feeling of something, you can't un-know it. "knowing" a feeling is probably a combination of the subjective memory of it, but also the activation of a pathway in a biological sense. i think with time that pathway closes up, but even reactivating it once for a brief period can potentially open up the flood gates. this is all speculative. all this stuff is very subjective and there are tons of other factors that make peoples' experiences wildly different.

ditto. i think my biggest problem with FB (and i suppose social media as a whole) is that everyone's digital version of themselves isn't really who they are. you always want to present the best, happiest, most successful version of yourself to the world (look at me, i checked into the airport. i'm so important cause i fly around for work!). in reality, we're all flawed and miserable in a way. i know it's silly, given that i know all this.. but logging into FB and seeing a never ending wall of people thriving, i can't help but compare myself and feel terrible.

pretty much this. the fact that you went from 10mg a day to 60-70 within a year is a sign that you're chasing a high. unfortunately, people don't recognize this as a "high" initially because they mistake the motivation derived from euphoria as focus/attention. they think "hey this is working!". they may even think "if it's working, it probably means i had ADHD!" the fact of the matter is, you've crossed a line with amphetamines that you can't walk back. now is the time quit. as @DrewK15 pointed out, quitting Adderall isn't physically dangerous, but it's going to suck. cold turkey is the most effective way to go for users with your pattern. taper is certainly an option, but it will require coming clean with your doctor. if you don't think you have the discipline to enforce the taper, you should tell your husband about this and have him dose you. in an ideal world, you would come totally clean to him... but i get it. you don't need to explain it as an "Adderall addiction", maybe just: "my normal dose stopped working recently and i didn't realize how harmful it could be to raise my dose. i've already spoken to my doctor and he/she suggests that you regulate my dose just in case." good luck and please keep us posted (:

sure about that? lol "Everything is improving at such an impressive rate. I do not want to be one of those guys that say yeah I am still recovering years later. This is just a hiccup for me, I came and saw then left. I am not going to let this define me or any part of my life. I am reading some experiences and seem some people take pride of recovering or quitting. It's not something to be prideful of, I rather just recover and forget." of course we take pride in it. it's one of the hardest things we'll ever do. if we can do this? then we can do anything. (: i too hope that you keep us updated on your progress, and i also hope this is genuinely working for you! it doesn't change the fact that what you're doing is dangerous and you have no scientific method to validate the effects of these ridiculous chemicals. it's certainly interesting research you've done - but if you truly wish to help people with this guide, clean up your methodology and remove the ego.

^this. @komgordon something to consider about your plan.. you are doing and taking so many things at the same time, it is impossible to say what is actually effective. this is like saying, "i'm really cold. i'm going to turn on 14 space heaters and ALSO take some experimental drugs that MIGHT make my skin more sensitive to heat." you see the problem here? you say yourself at the beginning of the guide: "Granted, I am coming from no exercise, adderall, smoking, heavy caffeine use, heavy drinking on some weekends all coupled with a poor diet." you could be feeling great simply from the diet and exercise, some subtle effects from supplements, research chemicals are doing nothing. hell - you could be feeling good simply because you're actively engaged in this experiment/project and getting little dopamine hits from the external validation of posting on Reddit. that's the best case scenario. the worst case scenario? those research chemicals are actually harming you, but you can't tell yet because you are feeling subjectively better relative to terrible withdrawal symptoms. you're not measuring something quantitative here, nor are you using any standardized assessment of your subjective experience. PAWS is also known to come and go in waves. i don't mean to discourage you because it seems you've put a lot of effort into this, but this approach is not very scientific to begin with. to be honest though, my bigger concern is around presenting something like this as "science" to a community of addicts in recovery who are desperate and often willing to try anything - your plan looks awfully expensive and dangerous. that all being said, i am glad to read that you are feeling better after 4 months? that's great news! despite my criticism of your plan, i genuinely hope this is the attempt that finally brings you to a full recovery! (:

hi Jason, welcome to our community! glad you decided to join us - there's such a wealth of knowledge and experience here, i can safely say it was the single greatest source of power during my recovery. same thing happened to me during one of my attempts at quitting. at the time, my pdoc would not pre-write scripts, so i would have to call in and pick it up each month. i simply stopped calling and showing up, and i was clean for about 3 months. then.. i received the quarterly appointment reminder phone call. it's scary how visceral a reaction that simple phone call can make. it's so great that you have the support of your boyfriend - don't let him down! (:

it's a bit of everything really. as an example in your post right here.. the sentence would read better this way: "Where exactly did you see broken English?" (: i read through some of your guide, and commend you for the effort, but i have seen you post this several times across multiple threads on this site already and it is coming off as self-promotion, which i suppose isn't against the rules here but may not be appreciated by all. sorry to derail OP's thread!

hi giantsfan, welcome to the forums! you're in the right place - i for one started the same way you did. had a friend with a script, bummed off him until i was hooked then got my own prescription. i have to imagine that Adderall is rampant in Silicon Valley culture, which makes your recovery all the more challenging. but it's still worth it. as you mentioned, you've lived without it and you WILL thrive without it. FYI, the acne thing is not uncommon. i preferred the pink footballs (i believe these are Teva/Barr) even though they caused pretty bad acne because they were more effective for me (for getting high, lol). each generic manufacturer uses different formulations that have different fillers which affect people differently. some are absorbed and tolerated better than others. be kind to yourself, don't push yourself too hard and come up with a plan for work. if you can take some time off, do it! gl and keep us posted. (:

hi Misanthropissed, welcome to the forums! first of all, CONGRATULATIONS on 16 months! it sounds like you've had a pretty rough time this past year, which isn't unexpected, but you should give yourself more credit for the tremendous work you've done so far! i'm sorry to hear that you are still feeling severe symptoms. amphetamine long-term withdrawal has more to do with frequency and duration of use than dosage. 2 years of daily use combined with anti-d and benzos is a pretty serious cocktail, but usually at 16 months you should at least be over the acute physical withdrawal symptoms. most people here have made "full" recoveries - i've been clean for ~3 years and i would consider myself fully recovered. of course each person's recovery experience will be different based on their body chemistry, hormones, values etc. but something to consider: the not so obvious thing is the notion of "letting yourself live." i think some people have an especially difficult time during recovery because they are constantly trying to measure, evaluate their mental state, compare to what they believe should be "normal". indirectly what you're doing though is keeping the negative symptoms in state of constant awareness, which just reinforces them. i know this one of those "easier said than done" type ideas, but this realization was very powerful for me during recover. it allowed me to accept my current situation and simply believe in all the inspiring recovery stories here in this community. as i said above, most people here have made "full" recoveries. you will too (:

you're not wrong. i've seen this argument made by medical professionals regarding the long-term safety of amphetamines, from a physiological perspective. however.. IMO it's worse on a psychological level (or at the least has it's own unique challenges). downers are usually taken to disconnect from life, an escape. i think the primary value here is that of pleasure or bliss. there is also a very established stigma with these types of drugs. uppers (and more specifically Adderall) are taken increase engagement and productivity. the value proposition here is "success", which of course is indirectly pleasureful, but in and of itself a very different beast.

dude this is an awesome idea - i'm totally excited for you! this is also an opportunity to embrace novelty with an automatic "in" -- you're new in town! definitely get into the music scene there, find some open mics. maybe even jump right in to some Meetups like songwriting, poetry, etc. those are great ways to make the right kinds of new friends (:

i've made no effort whatsoever on the getting-in-shape thing for 3 years of recovery. maybe this is the inspiration i need--will give it a listen!