BeHereNow

Check in Sunday!! 13 miles for this week. I went Tuesday and Thursday. I spent a lot of today hardcore cleaning so that's my workout for today And now it's time to hit the books for the evening. P.S. Haven't eaten meat since I was 12-- yeah team veg!

Hi and welcome! It sounds like you need to quit now. Adderall works for awhile, but if you abuse it (and maybe even if you don't), it stops working eventually. It has a law of diminishing returns where it starts to become actually counter-productive. Adderall has stopped working for you and from here on out, you can only continue to get diminishing returns. It is no longer your ally. It is not a friend. It is undermining you, your work, and your future. I hate to be harsh, but that's the pattern adderall abuse generally follows. I'm a grad student too so I definitely understand how scary it is to quit. In hindsight, my final months before quitting were some of the worst for me in school. I was taking incompletes in most of my classes because I couldn't even get a paper together. My grades suffered. My mind was an idea-salad and my ADD was actually getting worse. At the end, I actually spent more time thinking about when I could take the next pill than I spent thinking about my work! I was late for EVERYTHING, horribly antisocial, and when I read my old papers from that time, I basically sound like a tweaked out disorganized robot. Quitting has been so hard, but so worth it. It also made my GPA go up and I became more coherent again. There are others on here who have had similar results from quitting. I hope you quit. I hope you stick around. Feel free to message me and/or post away on here as you figure out your next steps

Thank you everyone! Jon, I appreciate you saying that, and I think you're right. The correlation is very close. I've been working hard to get my ideas flowing, with various methods, and it's finally starting to go somewhere. But I think it goes both ways too. I think the sense of calm acceptance emerged in part from starting to write again, because I had to start approaching it from a completely different place that does not in any way resemble adderall. And the calm acceptance of letting go is helping me write. It's helping me feel calm and at peace about my thesis, which is conducive to writing flow. It's starting to go somewhere, and it's going to be great. And 100% adderall-free

Dear Adderall, There comes a time in every period of mourning when the loss has been grieved thoroughly, and healing has progressed sufficiently, to truly and finally let go. To reconcile what has been with what could have been, to release the anger and resentment and accept what has transpired. To stop mourning, and to stop holding grudges and regrets. To forgive. To let go of any lingering feelings or mindsets that could possibly keep me from moving forward with my life. This would amount to an unnecessary continuation of a toxic 'relationship' that has long since ended. So, in effect, this is a calm, peaceful, rational letter that it finally and truly is over. It just didn't work out. And I'm fine with that. Adderall, I've written you a number of infuriated goodbye letters now. I'm done with those. This is a letter of peace and acceptance. I will no longer demonize you, and I will no longer romanticize you either. I will strive to maintain an attitude of cool reason towards you from now on. I accept that I'll still have to deal with triggers, but that's how it goes. You're really just an artifact of my past now. I accept your presence in this world, and I accept that you might have a good relationship with other people. But I won't be jealous of that anymore. It just didn't work out between us, and never could have. But I can't enter into a stage of acceptance without reflecting on how you contributed to making me into who I am today. Setting aside all the thoughts of how much better my life would have been had we never crossed paths, I want to think about how you changed me and what I have learned. First and foremost, my original plan was to continue taking adderall for the first 3 years of grad school, to help with the transition, and then quit. Well, it ended up being 2 years. And I cannot lie to myself: Adderall, you really helped me in some very important ways during those 2 years. You helped me earn a 3.86 GPA during my coursework. Maybe it would have been higher without you, but those first 2 years are insanely difficult as they attempt to weed people out. I passed that test. I did some very good work with your help. I could have accomplished all of that without your help, but at the time I felt that I needed you, and I chose what I chose for a reason at the time. It doesn't matter. I learned a LOT, and I've retained a significant portion of what I learned. So, thank you adderall for carrying me to a place where I have slightly more breathing room, to work on my thesis. And thank you for leaving my life at just the right time. Second, adderall, there must have been something --a number of things-- already wrong that I needed to work on, and my journey into addiction helped me to understand this. For example, I didn't have enough confidence in the first place, so I turned to you for a boost and in the end had to quit with a dramatic loss of self confidence. I always had trouble with focusing and motivation, and now I have to learn how to actually get things done, how to focus, relying only on my own brain. I have always needed to be more organized, better at time management, more disciplined, and now I'm forced to learn the hard way. Adderall didn't actually help me with any of these things. But now I have the chance to look these "issues" directly in the face and actually deal with them. I would never be forced to confront all of my "issues" if I hadn't ventured into adderall territory. I wouldn't have nearly the self-understanding that I've developed since quitting. Third, you've helped me understand addiction in ways I never would have before. I never thought I was prone to addiction, but when the 'right' substance presented itself, I became an addict. And now I've learned the skillset and mental discipline of quitting. These are invaluable tools I never really had before. Adderall, I'm sorry for abusing you. You are extremely powerful and I should have treated you with significantly more respect. That said, I have already forgiven myself. I shouldn't have abused you, but I did. And now I'm still paying the price, but I'm also reaping the benefits of quitting. I have no regrets because I choose not to live a life of regret. It happened, it didn't work out, I destroyed a bunch of relationships and almost destroyed myself, and I'm a very different person now. For the better. Plus, I still have plenty of time to remedy all that I messed up while I was on adderall. And a lot more appreciation of time than I ever had while I was tweaked out.

LilTex it sounds amazing and I admire you, there is no way I could work out every day..... I need my rest days Checking in: 13 miles total. Ran 8.2 miles yesterday on some hilly back country roads. I went farther than expected, because I wasn't timing myself or using "map my run" or any other ways of counting the miles/time, I just went. Push ups and/or planks are becoming almost every day for me too. How'd everyone do?!

I cannot imagine it. I'd probably be dead.

ZK, Sorry to hear you lost a project. That's really rough. At least you have others going? I just wanted to say, I relate to what you said so much. I'm paralyzed pretty much all day every day by anxiety and depression, with roots that extend so deep into my soul. The problem is I'm wasting time and I'm really far behind on starting my thesis for grad school. My time is very unstructured, it's almost like being self-employed, so I have to structure it myself. I feel like I just CANT discipline myself now that I'm off adderall. I try so many things. I set schedules, then break them. I try waking up early, and then I'm tired all day. I try waking up late, and I can't get my day going. I tell myself I deserve breaks and workouts and sleep and such, but I need to tighten up the slack here. I realized recently that the lack of productivity has its roots in lost self confidence, which my anxiety and depression are all about. I can't even write for 15 minutes on my thesis, the writer's block and lack of confidence is so bad. I just feel like whatever I have is automatically going to be a huge load of stinky crap. Like it's never going to be good enough so why bother. I just assume I have nothing worthwhile to say, that my ideas are of no value, that I'm not important, that I'm a fraud and a failure and my life is going to go nowhere. Crap like that. It's about to become a self-serving prophecy if I don't get my act together soon. I'll probably get kicked out pretty soon, or something. I know I have it in me somewhere, but I shoot myself down all the damn time. Anyway, I'm here if you need to commiserate.

I'm checking in with 9 miles for this week. I tried to do more but the trails were a mess!

SweetCarolinee, Glad you're okay!!! I don't think 12 hours is unheard of or anything to worry about. And I'm not sure that there is any norm for that. Personally, I couldn't sleep more than 4 hours a night for the first 5 months or so. Everyone's different!

IR, I forgot to add, I bet your tolerance will drop pretty quickly. On my occasional little adventures in running low/out, it always drops right down. You're going to be fine! You're on a low enough dose that your chances of having a seizure etc are really, really low. I was on .5mg, 3-4x a day, and the dr who switched me told me I COULD go cold turkey at that dosage and I wouldn't die from it, but she switched me to clonazepam instead (just in case?) and it was def easier than it would have been. I have no idea what those derealization feelings are. Things just start looking and being weird. I learned to start seeing them for what they are, and I'll give the anxiety weirdness a few minutes to pass. Good job working through it without taking more! I don't have xanax withdrawals anymore. I've evened out with Klonopin. It took a few days or maybe a week though to make that switch. And then I found a new dr. I take .5 mg, 2x a day, plus antidepressants. I try my best to make them last and only take them when a serious panic attack is coming on, because not having one when you need it is the WORST. I think drinking in moderation is fine for you, just don't drink so much that you're anxious all morning the next day. (Cutting candy and sweets and caffeine, I think are more of a long term solution.... If you look up "anxiety diet" you'll find some info on controlling it through food. Which I believe DOES help anxiety, but not with hardcore withdrawals!) Let us know how you're doing.....!

Hi InRecovery, my fellow benzo buddy, First of all, I'm really proud of you for deciding to quit!!! I'm so sorry to hear it's become like this for you. Welcome to Benzo dependency.... it's not the best place to be. Benzo withdrawals in my opinion are 100000000000x worse than adderall withdrawals. For full disclosure, I still take Klonopin and I'm not planning to quit anytime soon. I know what I'm posting might sound bad or worry some people but I'm fine with it for now, and I know what trap I'm in. Klonopin helps me way too much and so far it's been the only way I can cope with my panic attacks. But I do have hopes to cut back on it eventually. I'm trying Zoloft now to see if that helps. IR, how much have you been taking? If it's a low dose, you probably won't have seizures. So just knowing that helps. Quitting xanax is REALLY HARD. It's so effective and kicks in so fast and sometimes I still wish I had it for that. But that's part of the xanax roller coaster. They hit hard, and leave your system fast. I got switched against my will to Klonopin and that dr told me I'd have no withdrawals from that switch. She lied. I had horrible withdrawals from the switch, probably because the dosage was halved too. Another time, when I was on Xanax, I ran out in another country...I lasted almost a month before going to a dr and getting a prescription there. It was pretty bad, but not as bad as I would have thought to be honest. I will say the alcohol combo is REALLY BAD news. That might be what set you over the top. Also you can die that way so don't do it! My withdrawals are like this: horrible insomnia, daily panic attacks, stomachaches, feelings of deralization and general weirdness, chest pain, trouble breathing, being really fidgety, speaking too quickly, horrible social anxiety, overanalyzing every little thing, running like a hundred miles a week because I can't take it, visual and audile disturbances. Everything is so intensified. It kind of feels like really bad speed. It's totally incapacitating, I can't get anything done, I get distracted by my own anxiety. UGHHHH. And sometimes...... after a few days...... there are moments of this weird mental clarity. And little things like, I noticed I can pronounce Spanish words better while I was traveling. You might want to think about switching to a longer acting benzo like klonopin or valium. After I adjusted, I actually like the long-acting one better. It's smoother and better for longer term anxiety. Also for tapering. Well, for until you get to your dr, I wanted to offer you a few things that help me during these tough times: Sleep aids (like Benadryl) either for sleep, or for really bad anxiety attacks (yes, I've taken the sleep dosage during class and it did just a litttle bit! haha.) I've been taking Trazodone at night and it's helping me not need it for sleep as much. But that's a prescription. Exercise... run, do push ups. Stay busy if you can Taking walks when the panic is too horrible to bear. Fresh air Unfortunately, I usually find myself drinking to cope. Don't do it!!!!! Alcohol ALWAYS makes anxiety worse the next day!!! So as hard as it sounds, no drinking!!!! Also, I've read a little bit about anti-anxiety diets. Avoid sugar, coffee, white carbs, the usual culprits... GABA and L-Theanine supplements help some people it seems. Be kind to yourself! Hot baths You have to let the anxiety pass. Know that's what it is. Knowing that's what it is can help. A mental approach: don't obsess or worry about the withdrawals you're expecting to be having. Don't repress it, but don't expect it to be that horrible. Just keep going. The bad withdrawals don't always happen for everyone, and they're not always all that bad all the time. If you don't tell yourself that story as much, you might notice the withdrawals less, or experience them less, if that makes sense. That has worked for me. Just remember you don't NEED xanax and you aren't going to die or have seizures. Remember you CAN do this.

Ashley I have a few random OCD behaviors I've had since I was like 12. Adderall made it worse. A dr told me that it's very treatable.... but I never tried to treat it. Unfortunately none of mine are related to cleanliness, planning, or punctuality :/ Do you feel like its getting worse? If so you might want to treat it ASAP before it becomes too deeply entrenched.

Sebastian, All other factors aside, moving to a new city can be an overwhelming life change in itself and that can take at least a year to fully adjust. Especially a huge city. You'd think you wouldn't feel alone, but a big city can be the most isolating place to be. It's really hard to meet people at our age. So maybe it would help to give yourself time and patience with that part of it, because it might be a huge contributing factor. Maybe, if you open yourself up to meeting more new people, that could help? When I was living in a new city where I knew no one for awhile, I tried online dating. It's interesting, you can meet really great local people who can show you around and introduce you to new friends. Also it used to be my "dirty secret" lol but there's nothing shameful in it anymore, it's so common. It sounds like you're living really healthy and doing all the right things. Any supplements? Do certain foods help you? Is novelty in any form possible in your life right now?

Its funny how adderall changes us. Old habits die hard as they say, and those are old habits you picked up on a very powerful drug (I forget for how long you took it....) I think the first step towards changing a habit is to recognize that you do it. Then you can play with approaches to changing it.

OK CHECKING IN..... 16 miles this week Climbed 150 floors on the stairmaster 40 minutes of rowing (7.5k) Planks almost every day, push ups every other day P.S. I'm also considering a half! P.P.S. So happy you're back LilTEx!!!!!

I have to agree with QO on this one. I did a number of internships and low-paying but FUN jobs, where I was just barely able to support myself. They are some of my favorite life experiences, and the ability to explore different career paths and meet some of my best friends was invaluable. I would not trade those memories in for any amount of money.

Ashley, what if you just go for one or two miles? OR, tell yourself that's all you have to do, and then go? That's how I trick myself into running when I realllly don't feel like it. Usually it ends up being more, but even if it doesn't, at least you've done that.

I take the full B-complex, which includes B12. It kinda makes me smell like vitamins, but who cares. I get a little boost of energy from it and an overall improved sense of well-being.

ZK, I"m a little late here but thanks for starting this thread. Someone mentioned it to me recently and I got curious, thinking it would help with my focus/motivation problems... but now I know what a bad idea it would be.

OK and on a workout-related note...... Is anyone here a morning workout person? If so, what's your secret? I'm thinking of making the switch. I became an evening workout person when I was on adderall; I would run off the comedown. So now, workouts still signify the end of the day and the end of work for me. My bodily memory always makes me really tired after a good workout. But some people say morning workouts energize them and get the blood flowing, and are great to get your mind going before studying. I tend to work out REALLY hard, so that might be part of it. But I'm not about to stop that! I'm just wondering if anyone has thoughts or tips on this....... I also realized it's a good way to motivate me to go to campus early, workout when it's relatively empty, then go to the library. Rather than starting right into hardcore work. I keep hearing how important it is to schedule different activities according to your body's clock. But maybe it's time to switch it up. Tuesdays are usually really hard for me, unscheduled and kind of PAWSy. So today I went to the gym first thing in the morning. Ran 4 miles, rowed 3.5k, did 39 push ups and 2:30 of planks. Was pretty exhausted afterwards, but eventually and oh so slowly, with food and coffee and lots of breaks, I started settling into work. This might be the new Tues/Thurs schedule for me.... Does anyone know if it gets easier to function after a morning workout? Thanks friends!

OK, I decided that as I keep working on the adderall mentality, I'm going to keep posting in this thread with anything new and relevant I've figured out. If we keep an ongoing conversation about this, maybe it would be really beneficial. Which brings me to....today. I realized I need to change my whole paradigm in terms of how I think about, and approach, work. Pre-relapse, I came to genuinely love my work and all the jobs I've had (I know, I'm really lucky). I was so inspired, the words and ideas would just magically flow and click together, and I would work with so much enthusiasm it became almost effortless. It was fun, and playful. I know this isn't most people's experience with work.... but it was mine. But eventually I went back on adderall and back to school. Between the pressure of grad school, and the adderall (which intensified the sense of pressure), the fun went away. Even the fun of interacting with co-workers. Adderall for the most part, for me, stops making things fun and joyful (like the way you're almost unable to laugh on adderall, or truly enjoy social interactions, etc. The way you get irritated so much more easily, and think of work as this huge span of time, set aside, with no breaks, that has to be tackled with pills.) It was adderall that made me start to think of work as something bad, even though I still enjoyed the high but also simultaneously hated it. Overall it became associated with the increasingly dysphoric tweaked out experiences I was having, with sleep deprivation and inability to eat, with stress and pressure and crazy deep anxiety; with zero laughter or playfulness. I need to disassociate it from all of that. I need a whole different way of think about and approach what I'm doing. I want to start moving towards genuine motivation. I'm trying to start thinking of my thesis as "exciting," and a way of "exploring," (to get me started at least), as a way of helping me understand the world better. Also as a step towards some further goals that I seem to have lost sight of in my PAWS states (and in my horrific self-confidence loss.) I have to stop approaching work as something like the huge boulder Sisyphus pushed uphill all day long. If I can make this shift, then procrastination maybe won't be such an issue anymore. EDIT: Just found this quote from a self-help book Working It Out? by Virginia Valien. It kind of sums up what I was trying to say here, but in a different way. "It occurred to me that mental work is like sex in certain respects, although at first it seemed a bizarre comparison. The most important aspect of the analogy was the idea that work was natural. I had always thought of work as something I had to make myself do, something I didnít intrinsically enjoy. The analogy suggested that I was getting in my own way, that I was preventing myself from enjoying myself. It wasnít that I had to learn somehow to force myself to work, but rather to remove the roadblocks to the way of enjoyment. I continued the analogy and decided that I needed a similar form of therapy (as described by Masters and Johnson). I needed to break the process down, starting at the least threatening level, slowly building up and assembling the whole, and discussing how I felt and what I was learning as I was doing it."

So many great tips from IR and Cassie, I can't really add much to the list. But I just want to piggyback a little bit here..... Agreed! On this note, I've been asked every time, and in several different lines of work, why I want to work for x company. So in addition to reading up about it, think about why you want to be there (based on what you find out online) and be ready to talk about it. Don't forget to come up with some good questions for them! I've been told (and I think it's true) that interviewers want to get a sense of your personality. (Part of the casual conversation thing.) It's the ineffable things that help them figure out if you'd be a good fit and if you'd be someone they want to work with. So as cheesy it sounds, be confident, and be YOU. (I know my nervousness/anxiety sometimes closes me off from being my real self, so if you can avoid that, you'll be a lot better off.) When they ask you about your strengths and weaknesses, you might want to try framing your "weaknesses" as potential strengths, and as things you're working on. But also stay honest. (Someone once advised me to say my weakness was that I'm "too organized/neat/ and a clean freak." But that's such a blatant lie, I couldn't actually say it.... You get the idea though.) I've helped with a few interviews in the past, and I remember a few things being major dealbreakers (these are extreme examples I know you wouldn't do anyway, but worth sharing I think): One guy used every chance he had to talk about his religion and prosthelytizing activities, and he just rambled on and on and on and got really off topic. So don't ramble, mix up your responses, and unless this is a religious place I'd keep religion in the background. Also, and this one is really obvious, I helped interview a lady who wore a horrifyingly low V-neck shirt that showed her cleavage. All 3 interviewers, myself included, knew that she wasn't a good fit from the moment she walked in the door.

BTW and on a side note...... I just re-read a short essay I wrote towards the rock-bottom of my adderall days, in September 2012. I remember tweaking out while writing it, thinking I was writing such "deep & profound" things, thinking it was this amazing work of art. HAHAHA! It's so horrible!!!! I'm really embarrassed I handed this in. This essay is completely incoherent, lacking in substance, no development of any concepts or ideas, it's just also all over the place. I wouldn't even let my own students get away with this kind of crappy writing. When I wrote it, I had no idea I was so far gone. It really shows how hard it is to see ourselves from the outside, to measure our true progress (or lack of it). Especially on adderall.

killthelights, I'm so happy you're quit! You seem to have a LOT of personality! Thanks for the words of encouragement for us here. Hope you stick around! (BTW, I listened to horrible music on adderall too......so horrible I'm too embarrassed to say what........!.......Let's just say it was unspeakably horrible pop music, and I would listen to bad songs. ON REPEAT.) Someday I'll be able to laugh at it like you can. Not there yet though!!!

Sorry for my delayed reply to all of your very thoughtful responses! For some reason, I didn't realize so many people (even on here) could understand and relate to being stuck in the adderall mentality. (Haha, that assumption in itself is probably part of being stuck in the adderall mentality-- isolation & assuming nobody else understands....when in reality, a LOT of people could understand!) So THANK YOU ALL so much for being so supportive and for sharing how the adderall mentality affects you. It helps me to realize I'm actually not alone in this part of the struggle. In some ways, I think moving beyond the adderall mentality/approach to life is harder than quitting the substance itself. But maybe that's just me already forgetting the horrific pain of early recovery stages, the direct chemical withdrawals (which no doubt are still there), and also the inability to function at all. Anyway, Ashley, did your counselor have any useful insights on this? That's pretty amazing that you found one who understands addiction and has been there. I have to agree with you, I LOVE being adderall-free and so many aspects of my life are improved/ing, but a lot of things are still extremely triggery. And we have to find ways to deal with that. :/ BTW, I have an appointment this week for a referral to a therapist..... I'm terrified, and I've cancelled the appointment several times because I got cold feet (or told myself I was "too sick," etc.) But I guess I won't know until I try it out. I've always been skeptical of therapists, I don't really want to talk about my feelings or the intimate details of my personal life with a stranger...... I don't want to talk about my childhood, or my relationships, or my sex life. That said, I've heard good things about cognitive behavioral therapy, so that's what I'm going to try for. Much appreciate the thoughts and advice people offered here! Cassie this is amazing advice, and gives me a lot of hope! Patience IS key, I agree, because progress in recovery is slow but so rewarding. Re-habituation is crucial too. It takes time, especially since I'm 10 years older than I was when I quit the first time (I was 21 then, and I just bounced right back no problem!) So, Jon, I think you raise an excellent point about how age affects recovery. Anyway, I'm not that religious, but the idea of prayer/meditation sounds really helpful too. I don't do either, but I probably should. I was just reading an article about how most of our decisions are driven by subconscious beliefs and motivations, and if nothing else I think that's a great way to start shifting the subconscious and opening up to learning to live a different life. All I have to do is learn how to meditate and sit still without having a massive panic attack..... haha, I'm so ridiculous! Novelty and change are definitely inspiring. I can't switch jobs or move to a new city right now. But it's all about getting creative. I like your ideas about new music. If I can get myself to start being social again, then maybe new friends, and catching up with old friends, will help a LOT. New ideas could help too. I went to a conference that was pretty inspiring and left me with a lot to think about. Also, a different workout routine or sport. (Running around the neighborhoods is a relic of my adderall days..... maybe I need to go trail running and also find a different gym.) I also realized that if I start painting again, and stop pretending I'm "too busy" for it, that will feed my overall inspiration and creative drive. Also, I'm looking for a new apartment for next August when my lease is up, and I'm hoping that will help. I'll get to live and work in an environment that is not in any way associated with adderall for me. (I'm honestly surprised that I didn't die from adderall in my current apartment, so it's still kind of stuck with that association, and it's still somewhat hard for me to get anything done here if that makes any sense......) Overall, I've got to find some different approaches, and other ways to generate novelty. It has to be an active process too. Today I found this quote and I think it's right on: Periods of tranquility are seldom prolific of creative achievement. Mankind has to be stirred up. Alfred Whitehead ZK, you're totally right. And I love Aristotle! I kind of threw the baby out with the bathwater on the Pomodoros. They ARE very effective for getting things moving. I have to find the right balance for using them, the right technique. QO you raise some excellent points. Redefining the terms of my recovery! I like that. I do think my comparisons follow the same pattern you described, and I'm now comparing myself to how I was before I relapsed. I had previously taken adderall for about 2 years, then quit for 5-6 years because I just didn't want it. I used only low doses back then, and didn't get too hooked. But going back on it was as simple as being handed one 5mg pill. You're right, something must have gone wrong in that recovery time. Maybe I didn't go as deep into exploring why I had quit, or why it was important, maybe because I didn't get too addicted the first time, so I didn't think it was a big deal to take it again. I had no idea my addiction could go as deep as it ultimately did the second time around. On the other hand, if someone handed me a bottle of adderall right now, I'd probably take a bunch of them. I still think about it and sometimes wish for it. I don't think I could handle being handed some, even now. I guess my strength needs to be built up still. In any case, I can't compare myself to who I was 5 years ago. I've progressed and learned a lot, even when I was on adderall, and in my recovery time too. I would never want to go backwards. When I really think about it, some of the same issues I have were still there, and some were even worse: I was drinking way too much, I still had the self confidence lack; I stayed in an abusive relationship for way too long; I couldn't decide what to do with my life, or where to go. I would never want to go back to any earlier time and I refuse to glorify any past period of my life. My favorite time is NOW. So I need to move forwards and create a new version of myself. Just ordered it! Thanks for the suggestion!